Note sure what you're arguing against. I stand by my claim. I'm actively working with Scala's macros and played with Scala LMS. In fact working with those conv

Note sure what you're arguing against. I stand by my claim. I'm actively working with Scala's macros and played with Scala LMS. In fact working with those convinced me of how much all LISP alternatives suck for expressing macros. Do you know why? Because in these languages macros are not first class, hence (1) they tend to be an afterthought, (2) hard to use and (3) filled with bugs because, wouldn't you know, they are targeting "library authors" and not users. Scala's macros for example are exposing the compiler's internals. And boy, I can tell you stories. Like how it wants an "untypecheck" call on the AST if you modify it, because those ASTs happen to be mutable (the horror), but then "untypecheck" has a bug in it, crashing the compiler if you have an implicit "unapply" in a pattern match, so you have to rewrite your AST first to get rid of implicit "unapply" calls to work around it. Behold Sincron, an otherwise simplistic library, for which it took me a whole month to achieve inlining Function0 literal arguments, with help from others and copy/pasted code, between cries that I crashed the compiler, again and again: https://sincron.org https://sincron.org - and btw, this rewrite for getting rid of unapply, this was the still-dangerous shortcut I took, because the general consensus at this point is that if you want to workaround the bugs of "untypecheck", you need to fix that AST manually. You can't blame Scala too much really. This is definitely preferable to hacking your own compiler plugin or to forking the compiler. And eventually beautiful solutions can emerge from that. The alternative to something like this is to expose a limited form of macros. For example F# quotations, or Rust's macros, since you mentioned those. The problem with these macro systems is that they are very limited, only applicable to a narrow set of use-cases. Sorry, but I personally think Rust's macros are next to useless as they needlessly complicate the language without that big of a gain. And the irony is that macros are basically used for error-handling in Rust. You know, if they added higher-kinded types, there wouldn't have been such strong demand for those macros in the first place. LISP is the only language (family) exposing macros to users.