4 ms·

We don't have the housing or infrastructure to support the vast number of immigrants. Hundreds of thousands a year. For most people it isn't a racist knee jerk,

We don't have the housing or infrastructure to support the vast number of immigrants. Hundreds of thousands a year. For most people it isn't a racist knee jerk, it's watching our schools and hospitals and housing buckle under the pressure.

EliRivers 10y ago
Incompetent government unable to do its fucking job and get houses built is the reason for the lack of housing. Extra people do exacerbate the problem, but the largest culprit is our incompetent, small-minded government refusing to do their job.
tudorw 10y ago
Our schools, hospitals and housing have been under pressure since time immemorial, perhaps if the countries earnings from oil and other resources had been managed better, investment in social housing had been maintained at previous levels, if the lack of investment from the business world in the form of apprenticeships and on the job training had been addressed more pertinently, and if the earnings of the managing and owning class not risen at a faster rate than working class, then this would not be an issue. Blaming a lacking in public services on migrants is not fair, while it's true to say that we have experienced a rise in immigration levels over the last decade, we are talking about a rise from 4 million in 1993 to 8 million in 2014, out of a population of 64 million, well under 10%. To blame all the failings of our state on that small section of society, migrants who are more likely to be of working age than our recumbent ageing population, and hence more likely to be adding to our GDP over the long term, is not only unfair, it's bad economic policy too, without immigration our country will fall to it's knees supporting legions of pensioners...
- monk_e_boy 10y ago
  Where I live there isn't much space left for new houses. I guess we could build up, but it doesn't seem desirable. Give the local people the choice of building low cost high rise accommodation or voting out of the EU... well, that's the decision we're all making at the moment.
  - EliRivers 10y ago
    While your area may of course be quite dense, England (the most densely inhabited part of the UK) is about 2.3% built on. The problem is not immigrants.
  - tudorw 10y ago
    In 2014, 4 out of every 10 persons in the EU-28 lived in flats, just over one quarter (25.6 %) in semi-detached houses and just over one third (33.7 %) in detached houses (see Figure 1). The proportion of people living in flats was highest, among the EU Member States, in Spain (66.5 %), Latvia (65.1 %) and Estonia (63.8 %; 2013 data), while the highest proportions of people living in semi-detached houses were reported in the Netherlands (61.2 %), the United Kingdom (60.0 %) and Ireland (58.3 %; 2013 data).The share of people living in detached houses peaked in Croatia (72.6 %), Slovenia (65.4 %) and Hungary (63.0 %); Norway (62.4 %) and Serbia (60.5 %; 2013 data) also reported high shares of their populations living in detached houses. Seems like the rest of Europe 'copes' with going up, as the other poster pointed out, it's not really about land, for example, take Surrey, an area with very high demand for housing, 2.6% of the total land area is golf course...
    - monk_e_boy 10y ago
      See those sorts of data do not help. What would you do? Just go to golf courses and demand they build houses? If your answer is no, then why use that as a fact? People don't want more buildings near them (nimby) ... what do you do then? They are the ones you need to convince to vote IN, not me.
      - tudorw 10y ago
        It was meant to be representative of the choices that are made in land distribution, there is a lot of land in the UK that could be built on, building more housing will of course reduce the value of existing housing by increasing supply, protection of the value of houses is part of a conservative / capitalist remit, perhaps it's that factor that is more influential than just a resource issue ? It's going to be hard to persuade anyone to vote IN, it's hard to 'sell' the status quo when people are dissatisfied, it's much easier to sell 'change', fairly terrifying, I really would rather stay in.

EliRivers 10y ago

Incompetent government unable to do its fucking job and get houses built is the reason for the lack of housing. Extra people do exacerbate the problem, but the largest culprit is our incompetent, small-minded government refusing to do their job.

tudorw 10y ago

Our schools, hospitals and housing have been under pressure since time immemorial, perhaps if the countries earnings from oil and other resources had been managed better, investment in social housing had been maintained at previous levels, if the lack of investment from the business world in the form of apprenticeships and on the job training had been addressed more pertinently, and if the earnings of the managing and owning class not risen at a faster rate than working class, then this would not be an issue. Blaming a lacking in public services on migrants is not fair, while it's true to say that we have experienced a rise in immigration levels over the last decade, we are talking about a rise from 4 million in 1993 to 8 million in 2014, out of a population of 64 million, well under 10%. To blame all the failings of our state on that small section of society, migrants who are more likely to be of working age than our recumbent ageing population, and hence more likely to be adding to our GDP over the long term, is not only unfair, it's bad economic policy too, without immigration our country will fall to it's knees supporting legions of pensioners...

monk_e_boy 10y ago
Where I live there isn't much space left for new houses. I guess we could build up, but it doesn't seem desirable. Give the local people the choice of building low cost high rise accommodation or voting out of the EU... well, that's the decision we're all making at the moment.
- EliRivers 10y ago
  While your area may of course be quite dense, England (the most densely inhabited part of the UK) is about 2.3% built on. The problem is not immigrants.
- tudorw 10y ago
  In 2014, 4 out of every 10 persons in the EU-28 lived in flats, just over one quarter (25.6 %) in semi-detached houses and just over one third (33.7 %) in detached houses (see Figure 1). The proportion of people living in flats was highest, among the EU Member States, in Spain (66.5 %), Latvia (65.1 %) and Estonia (63.8 %; 2013 data), while the highest proportions of people living in semi-detached houses were reported in the Netherlands (61.2 %), the United Kingdom (60.0 %) and Ireland (58.3 %; 2013 data).The share of people living in detached houses peaked in Croatia (72.6 %), Slovenia (65.4 %) and Hungary (63.0 %); Norway (62.4 %) and Serbia (60.5 %; 2013 data) also reported high shares of their populations living in detached houses. Seems like the rest of Europe 'copes' with going up, as the other poster pointed out, it's not really about land, for example, take Surrey, an area with very high demand for housing, 2.6% of the total land area is golf course...
  - monk_e_boy 10y ago
    See those sorts of data do not help. What would you do? Just go to golf courses and demand they build houses? If your answer is no, then why use that as a fact? People don't want more buildings near them (nimby) ... what do you do then? They are the ones you need to convince to vote IN, not me.
    - tudorw 10y ago
      It was meant to be representative of the choices that are made in land distribution, there is a lot of land in the UK that could be built on, building more housing will of course reduce the value of existing housing by increasing supply, protection of the value of houses is part of a conservative / capitalist remit, perhaps it's that factor that is more influential than just a resource issue ? It's going to be hard to persuade anyone to vote IN, it's hard to 'sell' the status quo when people are dissatisfied, it's much easier to sell 'change', fairly terrifying, I really would rather stay in.