5 ms·

Can You Behave Randomly? (1998)

tumbas 10y ago
there is no such thing as random
joshuamcginnis 10y ago
> kjergkjh129rgbcbmeert8848ygDGQ#%$^#$^YIUREGDSFdaw3- I just punched in the str above. I did it because of the article (not random), but are is the string random? I could argue to the nth degree how and why those seemingly random keys were influenced by outside influences (length of fingers, my typing habits, proximity to some keys vs others). Philosophically, is there such a thing as "random" if the very essence of matter is always under the influence of some other force?
- userbinator 10y ago
  Philosophically, is there such a thing as "random" if the very essence of matter is always under the influence of some other force? The difference is whether that influence is (theoretically) predictable; I believe that the current status is that such things as atomic decay are still considered "truly random".
- jloughry 10y ago
  Well, it's distinguishable (entropy 5.026987) from a large sample of English text (entropy 4.851720), an executable (entropy 6.495817), and a string of all 1s (entropy 0.129234) by Didier Stevens' byte-stats.py [1]. [1] didierstevens.com/files/software/byte-stats_V0_0_2.zip
jedberg 10y ago
The page about the draft was fascinating to me. I sent it to my dad because he was drafted in 1969, has a birthday in December, and had a super low lottery number. Luckily he never went to Vietnam because his brother told him the workaround -- sign up for the Coast Guard before all the slots fill up.
bumbledraven 10y ago
The coin flips I entered passed the site's tests for randomness. I generated them by first picking an arbitrary integer in [0,59]. I then (using simple mental arithmetic) used that integer to seed a PRNG by George Marsaglia [1] to generate a stream of pseudo-random decimal digits. For each digit, if it was in [0,7], then I took the 3-low order bits of its binary representation, in order from least significant to most significant bit (0=tails, 1=heads). If the digit was 8 or 9, I discarded it. Since each non-discarded digit gave me 3 bits, I needed 34 non-discarded digits to get 100 bits. Note that the PRNG I used has period 59, and only 20% of the output digits would have to be discarded. Therefore one could use this approach to generate up to 141 pseudo-random bits. [1] Marsaglia, George. "How to generate random number sequences (in your head)" (https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.math/6BIYd0cafQo/Ucipn_5T_TMJ https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.math/6BIYd0cafQo/Ucipn_5...)
nickpsecurity 10y ago
I know I can be to a large degree given results in fights and games where opponents were great at spotting patterns. They admitted as much. It's really pseudo-random given I used simple rules in my head plus approximations at a random choice for each to generate what looked like really random output. I wouldn't call it truly random, though, given how the intuitive brain functions. It's based on recurring patterns in input and output.

there is no such thing as random

> kjergkjh129rgbcbmeert8848ygDGQ#%$^#$^YIUREGDSFdaw3- I just punched in the str above. I did it because of the article (not random), but are is the string random? I could argue to the nth degree how and why those seemingly random keys were influenced by outside influences (length of fingers, my typing habits, proximity to some keys vs others). Philosophically, is there such a thing as "random" if the very essence of matter is always under the influence of some other force?

userbinator 10y ago
Philosophically, is there such a thing as "random" if the very essence of matter is always under the influence of some other force? The difference is whether that influence is (theoretically) predictable; I believe that the current status is that such things as atomic decay are still considered "truly random".
jloughry 10y ago
Well, it's distinguishable (entropy 5.026987) from a large sample of English text (entropy 4.851720), an executable (entropy 6.495817), and a string of all 1s (entropy 0.129234) by Didier Stevens' byte-stats.py [1]. [1] didierstevens.com/files/software/byte-stats_V0_0_2.zip

jedberg 10y ago

The page about the draft was fascinating to me. I sent it to my dad because he was drafted in 1969, has a birthday in December, and had a super low lottery number. Luckily he never went to Vietnam because his brother told him the workaround -- sign up for the Coast Guard before all the slots fill up.

bumbledraven 10y ago

The coin flips I entered passed the site's tests for randomness. I generated them by first picking an arbitrary integer in [0,59]. I then (using simple mental arithmetic) used that integer to seed a PRNG by George Marsaglia [1] to generate a stream of pseudo-random decimal digits. For each digit, if it was in [0,7], then I took the 3-low order bits of its binary representation, in order from least significant to most significant bit (0=tails, 1=heads). If the digit was 8 or 9, I discarded it. Since each non-discarded digit gave me 3 bits, I needed 34 non-discarded digits to get 100 bits. Note that the PRNG I used has period 59, and only 20% of the output digits would have to be discarded. Therefore one could use this approach to generate up to 141 pseudo-random bits. [1] Marsaglia, George. "How to generate random number sequences (in your head)" (https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.math/6BIYd0cafQo/Ucipn_5T_TMJ https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.math/6BIYd0cafQo/Ucipn_5...)

nickpsecurity 10y ago

I know I can be to a large degree given results in fights and games where opponents were great at spotting patterns. They admitted as much. It's really pseudo-random given I used simple rules in my head plus approximations at a random choice for each to generate what looked like really random output. I wouldn't call it truly random, though, given how the intuitive brain functions. It's based on recurring patterns in input and output.