5 ms·

I agree, this does appear somewhat overhyped. And those powerslides are far from impressive-looking. If it was revolutionary, I think they'd have pitted this ag

I agree, this does appear somewhat overhyped. And those powerslides are far from impressive-looking. If it was revolutionary, I think they'd have pitted this against a skilled human opponent. But, AFAICT, the best autonomous racecars (scale or full size) are still far from beating a human. Audi did this big thing a few months back with an autonomous RS7 versus a pro racing driver in same weight/spec RS7 [1]. The human absolutely killed the autonomous car, beat it by over nine seconds on a sub-two-minute lap at Sonoma. If you translate that into Top Gear race track times set by the Stig, it's like the difference between a Bugatti Veyron and the fastest Mercedes E-class. [1] http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a27200/819-roa-2015-12-01-the-analysis-man-vs-machine-67-5/ http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a27200/819-roa-2015-...

bigiain 10y ago
Yeah, but us humans have been improving top level competition laptimes by tenths or hundredths of seconds a year at best. How quickly do you suppose the machines are going to improve over a few years or decades? (Last night's fastest lap in the MotoGP race at Mugello was 5 hundredths slower than the class lap record set back in 2013. Admittedly there've been rule changes, but the humans aren't getting much faster.))
- mac01021 10y ago
  Given a particular car/bike with a particular set of tires on a particular track, Newton’s laws impose a theoretical limit on lap time. I don't know how close to that limit the best humans have come, but it wouldn't surprise me too much to find that it's within a second or two.
chongli 10y ago
But, AFAICT, the best autonomous racecars (scale or full size) are still far from beating a human. What kind of race car are the humans driving? Does it have electronic stability control? Anti-lock breaks? Power steering? Automatic transmission? These are just a few of the many innovations that make it easier for a human to drive more easily at a high level of performance. The line between autonomous and human-operated cars is blurry.
- Bromskloss 10y ago
  It's common for race cars not to have any of those.
  - guscost 10y ago
    And if I'm not mistaken professional race drivers are faster without autonomous stability systems running, because consumer-grade traction control "plays it safe" so to speak. Could a traction control/autonomous steering system be designed to push the envelope and risk losing traction as effectively as (or far more effectively than) a pro driver? Almost certainly, but I'm not sure how hard of a problem that will be.
    - glaberficken 10y ago
      That's true about consumer grade stability systems which are engineered with great margins for safety. As you can see by looking at the F1 active suspension ban in the 90s, when tuned for performance, these systems provided a real edge to even the best pro-drivers.
      - semi-extrinsic 10y ago
        But the active suspension system etc. isn't actually in the "autonomous driving" category, it's an aerodynamics/grip improvement. What it does (maintain perfect ride height) isn't something humans do anyway.
        glaberficken 10y ago
        yeah good point, what about brakes and accelerators that actuate via electronics/cpu instead of mechanically like in the old days? Humans press brake/accelerate pedals...
        semi-extrinsic 10y ago
        If you take ESP/ABS and other driver assists out of the picture, there's no real difference between drive-by-wire and hydraulic couplings (servos etc.). And if you want a fully non-servo car, it's early 1960's for you.
tim333 10y ago
>still far from beating a human Not that far. Stanford University's Audi TTS ‘Shelley’ beats David Vodden, the racetrack CEO and amateur touring class champion at Thunderhill Raceway Park sometimes. http://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/driverless-car-can-beat-race-car-driver-sometimes-n305451 http://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/driverless-car-c...

bigiain 10y ago

Yeah, but us humans have been improving top level competition laptimes by tenths or hundredths of seconds a year at best. How quickly do you suppose the machines are going to improve over a few years or decades? (Last night's fastest lap in the MotoGP race at Mugello was 5 hundredths slower than the class lap record set back in 2013. Admittedly there've been rule changes, but the humans aren't getting much faster.))

mac01021 10y ago
Given a particular car/bike with a particular set of tires on a particular track, Newton’s laws impose a theoretical limit on lap time. I don't know how close to that limit the best humans have come, but it wouldn't surprise me too much to find that it's within a second or two.

chongli 10y ago

But, AFAICT, the best autonomous racecars (scale or full size) are still far from beating a human. What kind of race car are the humans driving? Does it have electronic stability control? Anti-lock breaks? Power steering? Automatic transmission? These are just a few of the many innovations that make it easier for a human to drive more easily at a high level of performance. The line between autonomous and human-operated cars is blurry.

Bromskloss 10y ago
It's common for race cars not to have any of those.
- guscost 10y ago
  And if I'm not mistaken professional race drivers are faster without autonomous stability systems running, because consumer-grade traction control "plays it safe" so to speak. Could a traction control/autonomous steering system be designed to push the envelope and risk losing traction as effectively as (or far more effectively than) a pro driver? Almost certainly, but I'm not sure how hard of a problem that will be.
  - glaberficken 10y ago
    That's true about consumer grade stability systems which are engineered with great margins for safety. As you can see by looking at the F1 active suspension ban in the 90s, when tuned for performance, these systems provided a real edge to even the best pro-drivers.
    - semi-extrinsic 10y ago
      But the active suspension system etc. isn't actually in the "autonomous driving" category, it's an aerodynamics/grip improvement. What it does (maintain perfect ride height) isn't something humans do anyway.
      - glaberficken 10y ago
        yeah good point, what about brakes and accelerators that actuate via electronics/cpu instead of mechanically like in the old days? Humans press brake/accelerate pedals...
        semi-extrinsic 10y ago
        If you take ESP/ABS and other driver assists out of the picture, there's no real difference between drive-by-wire and hydraulic couplings (servos etc.). And if you want a fully non-servo car, it's early 1960's for you.

tim333 10y ago

>still far from beating a human Not that far. Stanford University's Audi TTS ‘Shelley’ beats David Vodden, the racetrack CEO and amateur touring class champion at Thunderhill Raceway Park sometimes. http://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/driverless-car-can-beat-race-car-driver-sometimes-n305451 http://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/driverless-car-c...