3 ms·

"If you found a security flaw in ethereum / DAO and stole a bunch of money, is it even illegal?" I'm sure it is. No one has ever gotten away with Bitcoin theft

by aab0 10y ago

"If you found a security flaw in ethereum / DAO and stole a bunch of money, is it even illegal?" I'm sure it is. No one has ever gotten away with Bitcoin thefts by arguing 'all I did was input some numbers as allowed to the server and sent some bitcoins to another address'. Is it a good of real world value which you obtained control over without the original owner's consent? Then it was theft and a judge will see it as theft.

tamana 10y ago
What about play money like Eve or WoWarCraft, if I cheat within the game, exploiting an econ flaw or glitch? People buy and sell the play money.
- shrugger 10y ago
  Those sorts of games are heavily vetted. Eve alone hires several economists in addition to extremely rigorous software testing to ensure that the economy isn't subject to any abject arbitrage from players. It does happen, and I would think (not a lawyer) that in most jurisdictions that it would not be illegal. That case where the guy found a pattern in a video slot machine comes to mind. You are legally entitled to play the game in an authorized manner. Penetrating the server and giving yourself the money wouldn't be the same as playing the game and earning it. Also in Eve, the money doesn't correspond to money, it's time. You can buy time playing the game with the money. Maybe there are places to exchange one for another, but that's not really the point and would be out of scope for the developers, imo.
  - sillysaurus3 10y ago
    http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/707481/huge-eve-online-theft-amazes-45000-worth-of-in-game-cash-looted/ http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/707481/huge-eve-online... If Eve's in-game money doesn't correspond to real money, how is it possible to say "$45,000 worth of in-game cash looted" with any accuracy?
    - grenoire 10y ago
      The conversion is most often done through ISK -> PLEX -> 19.95€ on the basis of prices on the in-game markets trading PLEX [1][2]. However, there is no good and legal (?) way of actually converting ISK directly to real money. You can make estimates through the figures for the purpose of creating a sense of scale (especially used in EVE-related articles about battles and corps), but that doesn't mean that it's actually worth $45,000 of withdraw-able cash. [1]: https://eve-central.com/home/quicklook.html?typeid=29668 https://eve-central.com/home/quicklook.html?typeid=29668 [2]: https://secure.eveonline.com/plex/ https://secure.eveonline.com/plex/
lumberjack 10y ago
I think you missed the point. DAO and the funds they hold are not owned by anyone unlike Bitcoins who have a clear owner. I guess in some cases DAO can have a set amount of owners but this is not necessary.
- Zagitta 10y ago
  Perhaps I'm misundertanding you but how exactly are the funds not clearly owned? It's my understanding that each ethereum invested in the DOA still belongs to whoever invested them because they at any point can chose to split their funds from the original DOA into a different DOA where they then can extract the funds. Returns on investments come back in the form of etheruem that will be evenly distributed to the DOA token holders meaning that even they will have a clear owner. With that in mind I don't see how the fund are any less clearly owned by anyone than bitcoins, maybe you can explain?

by aab0 10y ago

tamana 10y ago

What about play money like Eve or WoWarCraft, if I cheat within the game, exploiting an econ flaw or glitch? People buy and sell the play money.

shrugger 10y ago
Those sorts of games are heavily vetted. Eve alone hires several economists in addition to extremely rigorous software testing to ensure that the economy isn't subject to any abject arbitrage from players. It does happen, and I would think (not a lawyer) that in most jurisdictions that it would not be illegal. That case where the guy found a pattern in a video slot machine comes to mind. You are legally entitled to play the game in an authorized manner. Penetrating the server and giving yourself the money wouldn't be the same as playing the game and earning it. Also in Eve, the money doesn't correspond to money, it's time. You can buy time playing the game with the money. Maybe there are places to exchange one for another, but that's not really the point and would be out of scope for the developers, imo.
- sillysaurus3 10y ago
  http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/707481/huge-eve-online-theft-amazes-45000-worth-of-in-game-cash-looted/ http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/707481/huge-eve-online... If Eve's in-game money doesn't correspond to real money, how is it possible to say "$45,000 worth of in-game cash looted" with any accuracy?
  - grenoire 10y ago
    The conversion is most often done through ISK -> PLEX -> 19.95€ on the basis of prices on the in-game markets trading PLEX [1][2]. However, there is no good and legal (?) way of actually converting ISK directly to real money. You can make estimates through the figures for the purpose of creating a sense of scale (especially used in EVE-related articles about battles and corps), but that doesn't mean that it's actually worth $45,000 of withdraw-able cash. [1]: https://eve-central.com/home/quicklook.html?typeid=29668 https://eve-central.com/home/quicklook.html?typeid=29668 [2]: https://secure.eveonline.com/plex/ https://secure.eveonline.com/plex/

lumberjack 10y ago

I think you missed the point. DAO and the funds they hold are not owned by anyone unlike Bitcoins who have a clear owner. I guess in some cases DAO can have a set amount of owners but this is not necessary.

Zagitta 10y ago
Perhaps I'm misundertanding you but how exactly are the funds not clearly owned? It's my understanding that each ethereum invested in the DOA still belongs to whoever invested them because they at any point can chose to split their funds from the original DOA into a different DOA where they then can extract the funds. Returns on investments come back in the form of etheruem that will be evenly distributed to the DOA token holders meaning that even they will have a clear owner. With that in mind I don't see how the fund are any less clearly owned by anyone than bitcoins, maybe you can explain?