5 ms·

branding. you can get a liberal arts education for a fraction of the cost by traveling the world for the same amount of time. but that's unfortunately not appar

by x5n1 10y ago

branding. you can get a liberal arts education for a fraction of the cost by traveling the world for the same amount of time. but that's unfortunately not apparently worth much to anyone. but the liberal arts education brand and rhetoric are as strong as ever. my take, most people are machines in terms of work. their employers could care less who they are as people as long as they do the work, take orders, and don't create unnecessary shit. maybe just maybe you might be able to wiggle your way into management if you have a liberal arts education, but then you need to spend just as much time getting good at writing code, and doing it constantly 9-5. better a computer science degree and an mba if that's what your goal is... and spend two years before that backpacking to round yourself out.

ktRolster 10y ago
you can get a liberal arts education for a fraction of the cost by traveling the world for the same amount of time. A lousy liberal arts education, maybe. By traveling, you see a lot of different viewpoints of average people around the world. But by reading, you get to see into the minds of the greatest people who ever lived. Both of those things are good, but there is a difference.
- tmptmp 10y ago
  >>By traveling, you see a lot of different viewpoints of average people around the world. But by reading, you get to see into the minds of the greatest people who ever lived. Agreed and today we can read the great works almost freely thanks to projects like Gutenberg [1] and Internet Archive [2]. So, essentially you don't need to spend $200k for this type of knowledge. I have educated myself thanks to the books on these sites. Of course, I didn't get access to the network of people that a Harvard graduate might seem to have. So, you have to figure out if it is worth to spend $200k or whatever to have access to that network. [1] http://www.gutenberg.org/ http://www.gutenberg.org/ [2] https://archive.org/ https://archive.org/
  - ahussain 10y ago
    It's not just reading though. Most of the value in a good liberal arts education comes from discussion with peers, and professors guiding the reading in a way that helps to avoid confusion and misunderstanding. Many 'great thinkers' cannot just be picked up off the shelf.
    - ktRolster 10y ago
      And indeed, in being forced to read things you'd rather not read.
    - tmptmp 10y ago
      Yes the discussions and debates do help. But this can also be had today with high quality forums (e.g. HN forum, google groups etc). >>Many 'great thinkers' cannot just be picked up off the shelf. That's where a little bit of internet literacy (mainly the google-fu skills) helps a lot. It's not that difficult to acquire it either. If you acquire these skills (e.g. in your high school) then finding great thinkers is not so much of a problem. In fact, I did it exactly in such a manner: I am from a third world Asian country, where such great professors are mostly non-existent or if they do exist they are almost always inaccessible to poor people like me. So, what did I do? I struggled with Google for some time, and with the help of some sites I acquired the immensely important google-fu skills. Then I landed on the Wikipedia knowledge-galaxy. From there the access to 'great thinkers' was just a click away. As far as discussions and debates are concerned, then I read books presenting opposing views on important issues like religion, economics and politics. e.g. In case of religion the theists' point of views, Bible, Quran etc on one hand and Plato's dialogues, Darwin's theory, Voltaire, Khalil Jibran, Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris on the other hand; Marx's Das Capital and communist manifesto on one hand and criticism of Marx and Atlas Shrugged on the other. I engage in online debates on forums like this. Thanks to today's internet and the sites like the ones I mentioned in the earlier comment on this thread, a person who has far less money than $200K (hardly $2500 per year) can actually acquire so much knowledge. It's not bragging though, as the same knowledge has made me more humbled too.
      - 10y ago
geori 10y ago
I did the things you recommend (CS, MBA, 2y traveling) but learned much more running a startup. You really just need experience with autonomy and exposure to smart people.
TrysterosEmp 10y ago
I'm a developer with an English degree from a liberal arts college and I do agree with the article on this point. When you're trying to dive into difficult literature –and learn how to analyze it in the first place– it's really, really helpful to have a professor leading you through it, and a room full of smart people discussing it. You can't just go fuck off to Bali with Ulysses and get anywhere near the same experience. Coding is different. The only way to learn how to program is to program. Yeah mentors help a ton and speed things up but I think it's a lot more solitary of a journey.

by x5n1 10y ago

ktRolster 10y ago

you can get a liberal arts education for a fraction of the cost by traveling the world for the same amount of time. A lousy liberal arts education, maybe. By traveling, you see a lot of different viewpoints of average people around the world. But by reading, you get to see into the minds of the greatest people who ever lived. Both of those things are good, but there is a difference.

tmptmp 10y ago
>>By traveling, you see a lot of different viewpoints of average people around the world. But by reading, you get to see into the minds of the greatest people who ever lived. Agreed and today we can read the great works almost freely thanks to projects like Gutenberg [1] and Internet Archive [2]. So, essentially you don't need to spend $200k for this type of knowledge. I have educated myself thanks to the books on these sites. Of course, I didn't get access to the network of people that a Harvard graduate might seem to have. So, you have to figure out if it is worth to spend $200k or whatever to have access to that network. [1] http://www.gutenberg.org/ http://www.gutenberg.org/ [2] https://archive.org/ https://archive.org/
- ahussain 10y ago
  It's not just reading though. Most of the value in a good liberal arts education comes from discussion with peers, and professors guiding the reading in a way that helps to avoid confusion and misunderstanding. Many 'great thinkers' cannot just be picked up off the shelf.
  - ktRolster 10y ago
    And indeed, in being forced to read things you'd rather not read.
  - tmptmp 10y ago
    Yes the discussions and debates do help. But this can also be had today with high quality forums (e.g. HN forum, google groups etc). >>Many 'great thinkers' cannot just be picked up off the shelf. That's where a little bit of internet literacy (mainly the google-fu skills) helps a lot. It's not that difficult to acquire it either. If you acquire these skills (e.g. in your high school) then finding great thinkers is not so much of a problem. In fact, I did it exactly in such a manner: I am from a third world Asian country, where such great professors are mostly non-existent or if they do exist they are almost always inaccessible to poor people like me. So, what did I do? I struggled with Google for some time, and with the help of some sites I acquired the immensely important google-fu skills. Then I landed on the Wikipedia knowledge-galaxy. From there the access to 'great thinkers' was just a click away. As far as discussions and debates are concerned, then I read books presenting opposing views on important issues like religion, economics and politics. e.g. In case of religion the theists' point of views, Bible, Quran etc on one hand and Plato's dialogues, Darwin's theory, Voltaire, Khalil Jibran, Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris on the other hand; Marx's Das Capital and communist manifesto on one hand and criticism of Marx and Atlas Shrugged on the other. I engage in online debates on forums like this. Thanks to today's internet and the sites like the ones I mentioned in the earlier comment on this thread, a person who has far less money than $200K (hardly $2500 per year) can actually acquire so much knowledge. It's not bragging though, as the same knowledge has made me more humbled too.
    - 10y ago

geori 10y ago

I did the things you recommend (CS, MBA, 2y traveling) but learned much more running a startup. You really just need experience with autonomy and exposure to smart people.

TrysterosEmp 10y ago

I'm a developer with an English degree from a liberal arts college and I do agree with the article on this point. When you're trying to dive into difficult literature –and learn how to analyze it in the first place– it's really, really helpful to have a professor leading you through it, and a room full of smart people discussing it. You can't just go fuck off to Bali with Ulysses and get anywhere near the same experience. Coding is different. The only way to learn how to program is to program. Yeah mentors help a ton and speed things up but I think it's a lot more solitary of a journey.