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Apple’s New Stance On ‘Cookie Cutter’ Apps

31 points by anderzole 17y ago

megaduck 17y ago
First they came for the PhoneGap applications, and I did not speak out- for my app was iPhone-only; Then they came for the boobs, and I did not speak out- for I was not a porn peddler; Then they came for the shovelware, and I did not speak out- for I was not an app spammer...
- Zev 17y ago
  Perspective is important; this is the App Store, not the Holocaust.
  - glhaynes 17y ago
    I think megaduck was making a funny.
    - Zev 17y ago
      Can't say I laughed. Figured I'd say why I wasn't a fan of the comment. May be worth noting that I didn't downvote it?
      - glhaynes 17y ago
        Indeed. And your point is good. Thanks.
  - megaduck 17y ago
    You're right. It's not, and I came dangerously close to activating Godwin's Law. If anyone's truly offended, I'm sorry. However, there's a basic human tendency to look the other way when abuse happens. That's really what I was referring to. Apple has been swinging the ban-hammer on 'undesirable' apps for a while now, and the definition of 'undesirable' keeps expanding. That's an issue of some concern.
    - Zev 17y ago
      I wasn't offended. It just seems like a bit of an overreaction, to compare some people being unable to sell software in a store to state-sponsored genocide on a massive scale. I like having my app on the App Store as much as the next iPhone dev. I disagree with the boob apps being pulled; better parental restrictions are the answer for that situation. I don't disagree with the wifi apps being pulled; private API's are private API's. If you want an API to be made public, file a radar ticket. You will get a response from Apple - either the API being made public, or the reason why they won't make it public.
- jrockway 17y ago
  This is an important lesson -- when you see your liberties eroding, you should try and stop it before it gets to something you actually care about. (There was a discussion a few weeks ago about the government trying to censor the Internet. I said I spoke out against this, and was told it was a waste of time because "just use Tor". Of course I use Tor. But Tor is going to be next on the chopping block, and then what? Better to stop it before it gets that far!) So sure, who cares about porn apps and shovelware? But how long until Apple starts blocking apps that let you save money on your phone calls and lets you get transcripts of your voicemail? Oh wait, bad example...
glhaynes 17y ago
I saw someone point out the parallel between Apple's online stores and "real world" retail stores and how the latter strive to sell items in line with an image they want to convey. Particularly astute, if you ask me; we techies see the digital world as having no inherent limitations. There's no reason the App Store couldn't have and sell every piece of executable code anybody wants to put up there -- they're not gonna run out of internets like a "real" store would run out of floor space. But the problem isn't just one of floor space: Target doesn't want to give you an impression of cheap crap when you come in the door and neither should Apple. Focusing on just the limitation that's been broken by moving to digital misses that the human perception factor is still the same.
- CoreDumpling 17y ago
  In the "real" world, you're also welcome to buy from a different store when you have different values from the vendor. Nobody can force you to buy from Target when you're happy with what's carried by WalMart. You can't do this with the App Store, and Apple goes out of its way to prevent you from loading software from elsewhere. On top of that, the inconsistency of the enforcement of App Store guidelines and the moving target set by Apple makes it seem like they are suffering from some growing pains. It doesn't look like they've really made up their mind about what impression they want people to get, other than some "slick" user experience. Bottom line is that on top of dealing with the unpredictable market out there, developers also have to put up with a very fickle supply chain with no alternative channels. I'll pass.
  - glhaynes 17y ago
    Are there not other phones available?
    - jkincaid 17y ago
      Sure. But none of them support the applications these developers have already built. It's one thing for Apple to set guidelines on what it's going to allow in the store. It's another thing entirely for it to not set guidelines, but instead force developers to figure out for themselves what is allowed based on which apps have already been accepted. Now Apple is changing the rules on the fly, so even apps that historically have been acceptable may not be allowed in. If Apple wanted to keep these promotional spammy apps out, it should have started blocking them from the start, before people started building businesses around them. Now I'm wondering how long it will be before Apple starts removing the many thousands of book applications on the App Store, now that it has its own official Books app.
zaidf 17y ago
...not everyone is having as much luck as the Appmakr team. And that, my friends, is the problem with the App Store.
DenisM 17y ago
Here's the funny thing - at any point in time most of developers should be happy with the culling - it makes survivors more noticeable. Until they themselves are culled, then it's a tragedy.
- marcus 17y ago
  First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out, because I was not a communist Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out, because I was not a trade unionist Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out, because I was not a Jew Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak out for me. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came...
- philk 17y ago
  Not sure I agree here: a) A developers biggest problem is his competitors. As the culling is a specific category of apps, it's unlikely to remove his competitors from the mix. b) It adds uncertainty into the business model. You can spend time and building an awesome and popular app and there's no guarantee that Apple won't decide they're culling your specific class of app next. c) The app store already has so many apps that simply culling a category doesn't bump the numerical odds up that much for an individual developer
  - DenisM 17y ago
    Good points. I guess it would make a difference in discoverability of survivors if Apple got more aggressive and purged, say, 50% of the app store, but this isn't likely.

31 points by anderzole 17y ago

First they came for the PhoneGap applications, and I did not speak out- for my app was iPhone-only; Then they came for the boobs, and I did not speak out- for I was not a porn peddler; Then they came for the shovelware, and I did not speak out- for I was not an app spammer...

Zev 17y ago
Perspective is important; this is the App Store, not the Holocaust.
- glhaynes 17y ago
  I think megaduck was making a funny.
  - Zev 17y ago
    Can't say I laughed. Figured I'd say why I wasn't a fan of the comment. May be worth noting that I didn't downvote it?
    - glhaynes 17y ago
      Indeed. And your point is good. Thanks.
- megaduck 17y ago
  You're right. It's not, and I came dangerously close to activating Godwin's Law. If anyone's truly offended, I'm sorry. However, there's a basic human tendency to look the other way when abuse happens. That's really what I was referring to. Apple has been swinging the ban-hammer on 'undesirable' apps for a while now, and the definition of 'undesirable' keeps expanding. That's an issue of some concern.
  - Zev 17y ago
    I wasn't offended. It just seems like a bit of an overreaction, to compare some people being unable to sell software in a store to state-sponsored genocide on a massive scale. I like having my app on the App Store as much as the next iPhone dev. I disagree with the boob apps being pulled; better parental restrictions are the answer for that situation. I don't disagree with the wifi apps being pulled; private API's are private API's. If you want an API to be made public, file a radar ticket. You will get a response from Apple - either the API being made public, or the reason why they won't make it public.
jrockway 17y ago
This is an important lesson -- when you see your liberties eroding, you should try and stop it before it gets to something you actually care about. (There was a discussion a few weeks ago about the government trying to censor the Internet. I said I spoke out against this, and was told it was a waste of time because "just use Tor". Of course I use Tor. But Tor is going to be next on the chopping block, and then what? Better to stop it before it gets that far!) So sure, who cares about porn apps and shovelware? But how long until Apple starts blocking apps that let you save money on your phone calls and lets you get transcripts of your voicemail? Oh wait, bad example...

glhaynes 17y ago

I saw someone point out the parallel between Apple's online stores and "real world" retail stores and how the latter strive to sell items in line with an image they want to convey. Particularly astute, if you ask me; we techies see the digital world as having no inherent limitations. There's no reason the App Store couldn't have and sell every piece of executable code anybody wants to put up there -- they're not gonna run out of internets like a "real" store would run out of floor space. But the problem isn't just one of floor space: Target doesn't want to give you an impression of cheap crap when you come in the door and neither should Apple. Focusing on just the limitation that's been broken by moving to digital misses that the human perception factor is still the same.

CoreDumpling 17y ago
In the "real" world, you're also welcome to buy from a different store when you have different values from the vendor. Nobody can force you to buy from Target when you're happy with what's carried by WalMart. You can't do this with the App Store, and Apple goes out of its way to prevent you from loading software from elsewhere. On top of that, the inconsistency of the enforcement of App Store guidelines and the moving target set by Apple makes it seem like they are suffering from some growing pains. It doesn't look like they've really made up their mind about what impression they want people to get, other than some "slick" user experience. Bottom line is that on top of dealing with the unpredictable market out there, developers also have to put up with a very fickle supply chain with no alternative channels. I'll pass.
- glhaynes 17y ago
  Are there not other phones available?
  - jkincaid 17y ago
    Sure. But none of them support the applications these developers have already built. It's one thing for Apple to set guidelines on what it's going to allow in the store. It's another thing entirely for it to not set guidelines, but instead force developers to figure out for themselves what is allowed based on which apps have already been accepted. Now Apple is changing the rules on the fly, so even apps that historically have been acceptable may not be allowed in. If Apple wanted to keep these promotional spammy apps out, it should have started blocking them from the start, before people started building businesses around them. Now I'm wondering how long it will be before Apple starts removing the many thousands of book applications on the App Store, now that it has its own official Books app.

zaidf 17y ago

...not everyone is having as much luck as the Appmakr team. And that, my friends, is the problem with the App Store.

DenisM 17y ago

Here's the funny thing - at any point in time most of developers should be happy with the culling - it makes survivors more noticeable. Until they themselves are culled, then it's a tragedy.

marcus 17y ago
First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out, because I was not a communist Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out, because I was not a trade unionist Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out, because I was not a Jew Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak out for me. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came...
philk 17y ago
Not sure I agree here: a) A developers biggest problem is his competitors. As the culling is a specific category of apps, it's unlikely to remove his competitors from the mix. b) It adds uncertainty into the business model. You can spend time and building an awesome and popular app and there's no guarantee that Apple won't decide they're culling your specific class of app next. c) The app store already has so many apps that simply culling a category doesn't bump the numerical odds up that much for an individual developer
- DenisM 17y ago
  Good points. I guess it would make a difference in discoverability of survivors if Apple got more aggressive and purged, say, 50% of the app store, but this isn't likely.