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Yeah, fuck enthusiasm! /s I can understand that we might want to avoid the obsessive behaviors of some developers that could be considered unhealthy, but blami

Yeah, fuck enthusiasm! /s I can understand that we might want to avoid the obsessive behaviors of some developers that could be considered unhealthy, but blaming a simple catch-phrase isn't going to get us anywhere. What if the shirt said, "Coding is rad" ? I say that all the time, and people just give me that look that says, "Ha, what a nerd" and it's fine for me because I can maintain my enthusiasm. Other people need a little bit more of a push to continue to push themselves to be the best developers that they can be. Should developers be monks that only exist to program? No. Should developers take pride in spending their time learning and improving? Yes. Should developers be upset over a t-shirt that has no impact whatsoever on their life? No. I hate this sort of reactionary outrage, it's more counterproductive than buying the stupid shirt is.

geofft 10y ago
There's a difference between enthusiasm and obsession, and I'm pretty sure there's a difference in how you object to enthusiasm vs. obsession. "John&Paul&George&Ringo." is a great T-shirt. "I spend all day in my bedroom listening to the Beatles" is saying something very different. And if there is a subculture of people who literally do the latter, to the point where it's not obvious that it's hyperbole, it's valid to object to it as "Dude, that's a bit unhealthy" -- which is a very different criticism than "The Beatles sound awful".
- shrugger 10y ago
  I understand the distinction, and you've articulated what I was trying to say. Where I think we differ is that I would argue the shirt is implying a positive, upbeat attitude. To me, that shirt says "Yeah, you rock, keep going" not "Don't come out until you're done no matter what"
- tamana 10y ago
  What do you think of the recent spin-offs, like "Larry&Sergey&Eric&Sundar"?
dasil003 10y ago
It's not the shirt that bothers me, it's the fact that Google tries to create this kind of work culture internally with perks designed to keep you at work longer, and then they sell this shirt so they can profit even more from the wider developer community's passion. I know that Google pays their developers well, and personally I am a bit of a workaholic myself devoting long hours to my company, but still there is something that I find unsettling. I wouldn't deny anyone their passion, and I wouldn't judge someone for spending all their time programming; the hair I want to split is doing so as part of a cheerleading exercise for a major corporation just feels exploitative somehow. Maybe that criticism is unfair, but Google is no stranger to handing down unfair decisions ;)
- tamana 10y ago
  Ear, Code, Perk, Sleep, Repeat is quite a different story!
- shrugger 10y ago
  Don't they have the right? I mean, a developer that's talented enough to attract attention from Google then surely they'd be smart enough to know what constitutes working 'too much.' I don't think Google exploits its workers anymore than they exploit themselves. If you think you've worked too much, then go home? If they ask you "hey, do you want to pull a 80-hour week this week?" why should you say anything other than: "fuuuuck no" Going even further, it wouldn't shock me if at least a subset of Google programmers go home and -- sit down and start programming something else. If they were going to do it anyways, and Google's going to pay them their dues, hell, I'm all about it. Eat, sleep, code, get paid, repeat.
  - sz4kerto 10y ago
    > I mean, a developer that's talented enough to attract attention from Google then surely they'd be smart enough to know what constitutes working 'too much.' Of course not, not at all. We all have different skillsets, and good coding ability does not mean you're good in everything else.
    - 10y ago

geofft 10y ago

There's a difference between enthusiasm and obsession, and I'm pretty sure there's a difference in how you object to enthusiasm vs. obsession. "John&Paul&George&Ringo." is a great T-shirt. "I spend all day in my bedroom listening to the Beatles" is saying something very different. And if there is a subculture of people who literally do the latter, to the point where it's not obvious that it's hyperbole, it's valid to object to it as "Dude, that's a bit unhealthy" -- which is a very different criticism than "The Beatles sound awful".

shrugger 10y ago
I understand the distinction, and you've articulated what I was trying to say. Where I think we differ is that I would argue the shirt is implying a positive, upbeat attitude. To me, that shirt says "Yeah, you rock, keep going" not "Don't come out until you're done no matter what"
tamana 10y ago
What do you think of the recent spin-offs, like "Larry&Sergey&Eric&Sundar"?

dasil003 10y ago

It's not the shirt that bothers me, it's the fact that Google tries to create this kind of work culture internally with perks designed to keep you at work longer, and then they sell this shirt so they can profit even more from the wider developer community's passion. I know that Google pays their developers well, and personally I am a bit of a workaholic myself devoting long hours to my company, but still there is something that I find unsettling. I wouldn't deny anyone their passion, and I wouldn't judge someone for spending all their time programming; the hair I want to split is doing so as part of a cheerleading exercise for a major corporation just feels exploitative somehow. Maybe that criticism is unfair, but Google is no stranger to handing down unfair decisions ;)

tamana 10y ago
Ear, Code, Perk, Sleep, Repeat is quite a different story!
shrugger 10y ago
Don't they have the right? I mean, a developer that's talented enough to attract attention from Google then surely they'd be smart enough to know what constitutes working 'too much.' I don't think Google exploits its workers anymore than they exploit themselves. If you think you've worked too much, then go home? If they ask you "hey, do you want to pull a 80-hour week this week?" why should you say anything other than: "fuuuuck no" Going even further, it wouldn't shock me if at least a subset of Google programmers go home and -- sit down and start programming something else. If they were going to do it anyways, and Google's going to pay them their dues, hell, I'm all about it. Eat, sleep, code, get paid, repeat.
- sz4kerto 10y ago
  > I mean, a developer that's talented enough to attract attention from Google then surely they'd be smart enough to know what constitutes working 'too much.' Of course not, not at all. We all have different skillsets, and good coding ability does not mean you're good in everything else.
  - 10y ago