7 ms·

Generally, this is an easy stance for young, unmarried, and otherwise unattached people to approach their career. A warning to those that think this will enhan

• xabotage 10y ago
  I distinctly remember sitting in yet another dull sprint retrospective and thinking, "Boy, I wish I were a firefighter." Granted, that line of work comes with its own drawbacks and I would certainly get bored of it the same way I get bored of software (or else worn out from the demanding physical aspect), but some days I'm surprised to find myself wishing I could "dig ditches out in the sunshine" or something of the sort for a living. This combined with the "eat, sleep, code, repeat" mentality I see in others makes me wonder if I'm really cut out for a software development career.
  • javier2 10y ago
    I have had a literal ditch digging job, and I hated that even more. But I still find myself longing for such a thing. Maybe if I could just have 3-4 days per year? xD
    • rplst8 10y ago
      My ideal would be a mix. One sprint of code. One sprint of building houses.
      • ryanSrich 10y ago
        Buy a house. I love doing yard work on the weekends after 50+ hours of tech startup bombardment all week.
    • komali2 10y ago
      We call those "reminders."
    • robbiemitchell 10y ago
      You might something like Habitat for Humanity.
    • detaro 10y ago
      Do you know somebody with a garden? Or maybe there is a community garden nearby?
      • glup 10y ago
        I second this. I find nothing more grounding after a caffeinated day of coding than pulling a beet out of the ground. Good food gardens (esp. permaculture ones) are fascinatingly complex systems that appeal to the engineering mindset, but involve neither 1) reading nor 2) looking at a screen.
    • scarecrowbob 10y ago
      I have a 30-hour-a week coding gig that is pretty easy stuff (enterprise integrations for WordPress plus a little Rails and a lot of "fix this CSS"). I spend the rest of the week playing music. It's a lot of moving boxes and equipment around and performing isn't super rigorous, but it's on your feet for 4 hours, and can be somewhat physical. I got a blister from a jazz gig on upright last night becasue I am out of practice. I've had physical labor jobs (refinishing airliners, sanding gym floors, bussing tables), and playing music is about as physical of an occupation as I'd like. IMO, 40 hours a week for a single thing is a bad job. I get plenty of work done in 30, I have a lower pay and live in the sticks, but I like it a lot.
    • curun1r 10y ago
      > Maybe if I could just have 3-4 days per year? Look for a company that offers VTO (volunteer time off). I worked for one that would organize a group volunteer event once per quarter and gave us a maximum of 8 individual days to volunteer per year. There's a ton of fun, physical volunteering opportunities. I've done habitat builds a few times and there are a bunch of parks in the Bay Area that are always willing to put volunteers to work on trail restoration, habitat restoration and other strenuous outdoor activities. One year I even combined all my VTO with a few days of PTO and volunteered in a national park for a couple weeks.
  • Trundle 10y ago
    It might just be particular to here (Australia) but firefighter is actually a very highly sought after and difficult to obtain job.
    • outside1234 10y ago
      It is in the States as well. I don't thing the OP was saying it was an easy job to do or get, just a totally different job that would be completely refreshing. I've felt that same feeling too.
  • uhtred 10y ago
    Oh man, retros :(
    • Cthulhu_ 10y ago
      That response sounds like it's something that should be discussed in the retro, :p
  • krrrh 10y ago
    It probably depends on the city, but I've heard that since Firemen work in long shifts living at the station a good deal of them also run contracting businesses on their days off from the station. It was explained to me that this was usually construction, but I imagine there are more than a few Fireman-coders out there.
  • epimetheus 10y ago
    My father was a firefighter for 20+ years (retired a few years back, made it to Captain), and I almost regret not following in his footsteps. It'd be the perfect job for a freelance web developer. 24 hours on, 48 hours off, most of those 24 hours are sitting around the station, so I imagine I could code a good portion of those, not to mention on the other days off. Plus great retirement.
• brador 10y ago
  Key takeaway - Don't do it for an employer. Do it for you. As a hobby, or as a business where you're rewarded for hours worked and quality of final product.
  • mnem 10y ago
    If you code for yourself as a business, it's generally horrifically stressful dealing with the money, marketing and contract side of things, all the while still having to churn out the code. Very few people can do this successfully for long.
    • brador 10y ago
      In that case keep it as a hobby. Just don't kill yourself for $15/hr when you're creating $1500/hour in value.
    • edoceo 10y ago
      This where you learn to hire a CEO and let them run the business while you turn put the value. Team effort
• Navarr 10y ago
  I think the issue here is when people take that viewpoint as a career. I code for a career. I also code for a hobby. I code for fun. They're different. You can eat. sleep. code. repeat. without it being eat. sleep. work. repeat. And you can mean it lightheartedly/halfheartedly as well. "Eat, sleep, game, repeat." can be the same thing. Obviously taking it literally is unhealthy, but I don't think anyone is proposing people do that other than employers with an unhealthy obsession of getting as many possible hours out of their employees as they can.
  • triztian 10y ago
    I also feel that way; in the sense that to me at least in this point of my life coding doesn't really feel like work but rather something that is a hobby, a game and a way to create value for others and myself. I do have to make time to work out again though.
  • markbnj 10y ago
    I don't know if you're young, obviously, but this is a young, or at least unattached, person's point of view. I taught myself to program in the 80's when I was in my early 20's. In my later 20's and through my early 30's I did it for fun and profit, often working on a project 14 or more hours a day. By the time I got into my early 40's I had a wife, three young children, a house, a couple of pets, etc. to go along with the job. Suddenly, or perhaps not so suddenly, there were a great many demands on my 18 hours per day of waking time. Unless you're different from most people this is how it will likely proceed with you as well. So one way of looking at this mantra is "we want young, unattached people who will throw themselves into their work and not coincidentally do it for less money than a middle-aged person with a family."
    • maleck13 10y ago
      I was a gardener until I was 25. I hated it. My father is still a gardener and he loves it. I am 35 now an I eat sleep and live software and I love it. Although I do try to work on l my own projects in my own time. I have 2 young kids and admit I find the balance hard. If you love what you do then it often doesn't feel like work, but like a hobby that you also get paid for. You see this is sports and many other vocations not just software.
• deleted 10y ago
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• lisivka 10y ago
  Go to war. You will have lot of experience and memories. It is easiest way to escape the cycle.
  • RUG3Y 10y ago
    You'll also realize that civvies have it pretty easy and that you can put up with almost any amount of bullsh*t.
    • lisivka 10y ago
      Can you translate to simple English, please? I cannot understand that.
      • logical42 10y ago
        'civvies' == 'civilian', as opposed to a soldier.
    • lisivka 10y ago
      > You'll also realize that civvies have it pretty easy ?? > you can put up with almost any amount of bullsh*t. It is not true. Good people are good, bad are bad, even at war. War just proves who is who. Yep, thinking is changing from libertarian to utilitarian style, because you cannot help to all, and will need to chose what to protect, which lives to save, etc.
      • RUG3Y 10y ago
        Maybe I wasn't clear in my comment. Being in the military is onerous, boring, soul sucking and awful. Being a civilian is much easier. Once you've been in such a crummy situation, nothing can faze you.
  • lisivka 10y ago
    To anonymous cowards: I did not said to "participate in war" or "go to army". Every war has lot of victims, which need help, and lot of other tasks. Just go to war and you will see lot of places where you can help if you have money and free time. I am single and have 25+ years of experience in programming, and I was in same cycle as above. I participated in revolution in Ukraine, then I was volunteer at war. I also met volunteers from Italy, Azerbaijan, Canada, USA, Israel. I have true memories about that and it definitely changed my life.
• slmyers 10y ago
  > But once you get burnt out at something, digging ditches out in the sunshine (or rain for that matter) looks much more appealing. Spoken like a person that's never dug a ditch.
  • krisroadruck 10y ago
    I've done both, and honestly if I could get paid 6 figures to work outside with my hands I'd probably switch back and forth between the 2 every 3-4 years. Sure manual labor is hard but it has some rewards to. Sadly one of those rewards is not a decent living.
    • brandonmenc 10y ago
      > I've done both Me too. Even at its worst, the flexibility of a programming job outweighs everything else. I'd still rather set my own 60 hour schedule than have a set-in-stone 40 hour one. > Sadly one of those rewards is not a decent living. You must not know any plumbers, garbage haulers, streets employees, masons, finish carpenters, or electricians. I have friends and family in each of those categories, and they all do well. They live better than every single one of my friends who graduated college with non-engineering degrees. You can make a decent living with manual labor if you choose wisely, and most of that work will never disappear - people will always have toilets, for example.
      • krisroadruck 10y ago
        That's all well and good but we were talking about ditch digging not being a skilled laborer. Of course a plumber or electrician can make good money, especially if they own their own business and manage it well. That is a far cry from operating a shovel though isn't it? You'll also notice I mentioned 6 figures specifically, and while I do know ONE plumber who makes that much, it is because he has a rather large multi-employee business and is more of a manager at this point than a plumber. The benefits I was talking about was the ability to sort of mindlessly put your muscles to work. You can do that with a shovel. Mindlessly working with electricity, water mains, or finishing touches on someones house is likely to at best get you fired and at worst get you injured fairly severely.
• Longhanks 10y ago
  I wouldn't wear this to "enhance my opportunities". I love coding, that's why I chose this career. Coding at home as a hobby is quite different from coding at work. I love both. Why shouldn't I embrace my hobby and my job? Because somewhere some people might feel offended, like in this thread? I don't care. I had to giggle reading the shirt, I like that shirt, I wear that shirt. It's as simple as that.
• 20years 10y ago
  I can relate. After doing this for over 15 years and many of those in the "Eat, sleep, code, repeat" mode, I sometimes lay in bed at night and imagine what it would be like being a gardener. I picture landscaping plans I would design and it feels like heaven being outside all day making those plans come to life. But as they say, the grass is always greener on the other side.
• FLUX-YOU 10y ago
  I don't know why anyone would do that for loyalty unless you were really sure about the people. For monetary gain/prestige to retire earlier? Sure. Unless we get very unlucky with the tech industry in the next 20 years. Digging ditches is great until you ruin your bones/joints.
• welanes 10y ago
  “Eat, sleep, code, repeat” is a path to burnout but it's also path to freedom which may make it worth the cost. Never before have the tools to turn ideas into code into money been so easily at our disposal. So while coding for the love of coding may lead to dissatisfaction after X years, coding a service/business has a good upside if at the end of it you've turned an idea into something with a revenue stream. That said, a path fraught with failure and an easier choice for those who are either young or have few responsibilities.
• ryandvm 10y ago
  Fuckin' A, man.