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Maybe racist by the dictionary definition (judging by skin color) but it holds no force against actually preventing a white male from doing anything. I as a whi

by spraak 10y ago

Maybe racist by the dictionary definition (judging by skin color) but it holds no force against actually preventing a white male from doing anything. I as a white male can underachieve my way into anything while other genders and people of color must work much harder for the same.

zo1 10y ago
>"Maybe racist by the dictionary definition" That is the only definition that matters. Everything else is subjective, relative and open to abuse by bad people from all sides. >"I as a white male can underachieve my way into anything while other genders and people of color must work much harder for the same." Have you seen white people in poverty? They are no different than black people in poverty, and are just as needing of our help. To make a distinction and help one over the other is plain old racism according to the dictionary/textbook definition and has no place in an inclusive society. #Edit. Formatting.
- zepto 10y ago
  I agree that white people in poverty need help. However ignoring that black people face different challenges and are in fact differentialy affected by prejudice because of the existing power structure is itself perpetuating racism. The end goal is to treat everyone the same. Calling for colorblindness doesn't achieve that. Edit: Also, yes I have seen white people in poverty. Poverty is no different for them. However they are still treated better by the police, other institutions and large sections of society.
  - spraak 10y ago
    > However they are still treated better by the police, other institutions and large sections of society. This is exactly my point, thank you.
- acdha 10y ago
  > Have you seen white people in poverty? They are no different than black people in poverty, and are just as needing of our help. I don't disagree that this is a huge problem but consider what it's like for someone trying to work their way out when they obviously, unavoidably don't fit in. The key point here is simply recognizing that different areas of discrimination have different impacts and they combine super-linearly. If you're poor but white and male, once you get started on the skill ladder you'll be able to quickly adopt many of the other cultural trappings and start getting breaks, which are self-reinforcing. In tech, say you go to a local OSS developers meetup. You're hiring and there's a bearded white guy with a messenger bag who sounds interested in ES6 — do you stop to quiz them about whether they grew up in Palo Alto or the more dismal parts of upstate NY before telling them to apply? The same process often goes down a different path if the person in question is female, latino, black, etc. and someone subconsciously wonders whether they're as qualified and that conversation doesn't happen at all if someone came to a meetup or two but felt out of place and decided not to keep attending. That kind of thing happening a couple of times early in someone's career can have a massive impact on their lifetime trajectory and because so much of it is subconscious it can happen even if everyone involved would have chosen otherwise if asked. In much of the business world, someone from a poor white background has to watch their accent and learn to wear a suit, etc. An African-American can do the same thing but will also have to deal with being confused for lower-level staff or even the security guard, caterer, etc. Sure, someone motivated can rise above that but simply having to think about it, or spend time ensuring that you're always bringing your A game to your attire, social negotiation, etc. is a distraction from the actual business that some people are fortunate enough not to have to deal with.
  - spraak 10y ago
    Thank you for explaining this in detail. It's exactly what I was trying to say
- nickpsecurity 10y ago
  As in OP, the follow up comments to your comment only care about minorities and reject any consideration of white people in poverty past a fleeting acknowledgement. This is then implicitly justifies the OP's sweeping, slanderous statement that serious contributions only happen if the person is upper-class, white, and male. Which is what set our side of this tangent off to begin with. The amount of comments by liberals against our counterclaims vs OP's slander is quite telling: they don't care about whites or discrimination against them. I'm an impoverished white in a diverse area that is regularly passed on jobs because I don't fit in to another type of white or because I'm not black in jobs where workers are almost entirely black. I got laughed at one time by a room full of them for even trying to apply. There will be close to zero comments by the liberals on threads and tangents like this looking out for us even though there are at least hundreds of thousands... maybe millions... suffering white and non-white against white discrimination ensuring poverty or other ill effects. They don't care, though, because we're white. :) It's what we nicknamed reverse racism. You're seeing a form of it in action where effort is only put into protecting minority or trying to understand their issues while rejecting effort into "majority" (please, I'm a white minority...) and/or no exploration into discrimination issues they face.
  - spraak 10y ago
    > they don't care about whites or discrimination against them. I don't wish anyone to suffer. As a white person I realize that the power structure overall still benefits and lifts up white people while generally crushing people of color. You may have experienced racism, prejudice or discrimination but I very much doubt you've experienced the systematic destruction of livelihood that people of color have and continue to experience. > I got laughed at one time by a room full of them for even trying to apply. Sorry about that but it's a very small example and doesn't prevent you as a white person from going almost anywhere else in the world and benefiting from your skin color. I.e. the rate of occurrence of what you experienced is very small vs what people of color face. It doesn't mean you should be laughed at, but it's isolated and not a systemic problem. Edit: of course, down vote all you want but please also show me what's not true about this.
    - 10y ago
- spraak 10y ago
  > Have you seen white people in poverty? They are no different than black people in poverty Maybe on the level of that they're both human, but the white person still benefits from the system made for white people. Edit: relying only on the dictionary definition is impractical. While useful it avoids the deeper impacting levels. And in that regard, perhaps yes, the dictionary definition should be the only thing that matters and we can then agree on the dictionary definition of the system of white supremacy that keeps people of color down. Yes, lots of white people in poverty too, but again, they aren't seen as a threat, they're given the 'benefit of doubt' while people of color are shot dead in the same situation.

by spraak 10y ago

zo1 10y ago

>"Maybe racist by the dictionary definition" That is the only definition that matters. Everything else is subjective, relative and open to abuse by bad people from all sides. >"I as a white male can underachieve my way into anything while other genders and people of color must work much harder for the same." Have you seen white people in poverty? They are no different than black people in poverty, and are just as needing of our help. To make a distinction and help one over the other is plain old racism according to the dictionary/textbook definition and has no place in an inclusive society. #Edit. Formatting.

zepto 10y ago
I agree that white people in poverty need help. However ignoring that black people face different challenges and are in fact differentialy affected by prejudice because of the existing power structure is itself perpetuating racism. The end goal is to treat everyone the same. Calling for colorblindness doesn't achieve that. Edit: Also, yes I have seen white people in poverty. Poverty is no different for them. However they are still treated better by the police, other institutions and large sections of society.
- spraak 10y ago
  > However they are still treated better by the police, other institutions and large sections of society. This is exactly my point, thank you.
acdha 10y ago
> Have you seen white people in poverty? They are no different than black people in poverty, and are just as needing of our help. I don't disagree that this is a huge problem but consider what it's like for someone trying to work their way out when they obviously, unavoidably don't fit in. The key point here is simply recognizing that different areas of discrimination have different impacts and they combine super-linearly. If you're poor but white and male, once you get started on the skill ladder you'll be able to quickly adopt many of the other cultural trappings and start getting breaks, which are self-reinforcing. In tech, say you go to a local OSS developers meetup. You're hiring and there's a bearded white guy with a messenger bag who sounds interested in ES6 — do you stop to quiz them about whether they grew up in Palo Alto or the more dismal parts of upstate NY before telling them to apply? The same process often goes down a different path if the person in question is female, latino, black, etc. and someone subconsciously wonders whether they're as qualified and that conversation doesn't happen at all if someone came to a meetup or two but felt out of place and decided not to keep attending. That kind of thing happening a couple of times early in someone's career can have a massive impact on their lifetime trajectory and because so much of it is subconscious it can happen even if everyone involved would have chosen otherwise if asked. In much of the business world, someone from a poor white background has to watch their accent and learn to wear a suit, etc. An African-American can do the same thing but will also have to deal with being confused for lower-level staff or even the security guard, caterer, etc. Sure, someone motivated can rise above that but simply having to think about it, or spend time ensuring that you're always bringing your A game to your attire, social negotiation, etc. is a distraction from the actual business that some people are fortunate enough not to have to deal with.
- spraak 10y ago
  Thank you for explaining this in detail. It's exactly what I was trying to say
nickpsecurity 10y ago
As in OP, the follow up comments to your comment only care about minorities and reject any consideration of white people in poverty past a fleeting acknowledgement. This is then implicitly justifies the OP's sweeping, slanderous statement that serious contributions only happen if the person is upper-class, white, and male. Which is what set our side of this tangent off to begin with. The amount of comments by liberals against our counterclaims vs OP's slander is quite telling: they don't care about whites or discrimination against them. I'm an impoverished white in a diverse area that is regularly passed on jobs because I don't fit in to another type of white or because I'm not black in jobs where workers are almost entirely black. I got laughed at one time by a room full of them for even trying to apply. There will be close to zero comments by the liberals on threads and tangents like this looking out for us even though there are at least hundreds of thousands... maybe millions... suffering white and non-white against white discrimination ensuring poverty or other ill effects. They don't care, though, because we're white. :) It's what we nicknamed reverse racism. You're seeing a form of it in action where effort is only put into protecting minority or trying to understand their issues while rejecting effort into "majority" (please, I'm a white minority...) and/or no exploration into discrimination issues they face.
- spraak 10y ago
  > they don't care about whites or discrimination against them. I don't wish anyone to suffer. As a white person I realize that the power structure overall still benefits and lifts up white people while generally crushing people of color. You may have experienced racism, prejudice or discrimination but I very much doubt you've experienced the systematic destruction of livelihood that people of color have and continue to experience. > I got laughed at one time by a room full of them for even trying to apply. Sorry about that but it's a very small example and doesn't prevent you as a white person from going almost anywhere else in the world and benefiting from your skin color. I.e. the rate of occurrence of what you experienced is very small vs what people of color face. It doesn't mean you should be laughed at, but it's isolated and not a systemic problem. Edit: of course, down vote all you want but please also show me what's not true about this.
  - 10y ago
spraak 10y ago
> Have you seen white people in poverty? They are no different than black people in poverty Maybe on the level of that they're both human, but the white person still benefits from the system made for white people. Edit: relying only on the dictionary definition is impractical. While useful it avoids the deeper impacting levels. And in that regard, perhaps yes, the dictionary definition should be the only thing that matters and we can then agree on the dictionary definition of the system of white supremacy that keeps people of color down. Yes, lots of white people in poverty too, but again, they aren't seen as a threat, they're given the 'benefit of doubt' while people of color are shot dead in the same situation.