4 ms·

You are phrasing this rather politely. The "Social expectations" are enshrined into law. Just a quick look at the legal rights involving paternity vs maternity

by mafribe 10y ago

You are phrasing this rather politely. The "Social expectations" are enshrined into law. Just a quick look at the legal rights involving paternity vs maternity leave make that pretty clear [1]. So do the regulations regarding divorce and alimony in most legislations, see eg. [2] for the case of the US. The best way of thinking about this issue from the social power angle: Work is unpleasant in most cases (hence mostly only done when incentivised by pay or force) and best to be avoided. Those most able to avoid work are those with most social power. Parental leave is a social mechanism to avoid work, since most people prefer spending time with their children to working. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parental_leave#Variation_in_international_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parental_leave#Variation_in_in... [2] http://www.realworlddivorce.com/ http://www.realworlddivorce.com/

abalone 10y ago
> Parental leave is a social mechanism to avoid work And there's the sexism: the idea that raising children is not "work". Anyone who believes caring for a newborn is not hard work is welcome to try it and report back.
- mafribe 10y ago
  Most parents have a deep emotional bond with the children, especially when they they are vulnerable babies. It's probably the strongest emotional bond humans can form. Due to this bond, the relationship between children and their parents is completely different than the relationship between a corporation and its employees. There are no performance goals, there are no annual reviews, there is no stack ranking. Most parents would die for their children, who would die for their boss? If the relationship between you and your children is like that between you and your employer, you are probably not doing it right ... You can also look at this from a power angle: what do feminist typically campaign for? Do they typically campaign for mandatory patertal leave to match or exceed maternal leave? This would be the case if looking after one's children was such a drag. Nope, they are typically quite happy with women getting the biggest chunk of parental leave, but they want society to view maternal leave as work on par with working in a company.
  - fit2rule 10y ago
    Am Dad, can confirm: kids are very, very much work. Hard work. Very, very difficult at times. But the rewards are like no other. As a parent, I have a disinclination to consider parenting 'work', as in 'I should get paid for this because it sucks', because I don't think that all things that suck should be paid for, in general. Life does suck. Deal with it. And the suckiness of parenting is in no way at all the same level of suck as, say, having to do a Timesheet every single day and accounting for every 6 minutes of effort in order to get paid a pittance, and so on. Because you can't say: this human being is costing me $__ amount. To incentivize - or even, associate - parenting work as an under-privileged system of unpaid labor is to allow the conditions of human slavery to slip ever slightly more through the door. It speaks much of any -ism that claims that child-rearing isn't one of the truly greatest privileges for any living being, sentinent or otherwise, to experience.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- tzs 10y ago
  "Work", like many words in English, has multiple meanings. Unless someone clearly indicates otherwise, when discussing differences in pay it is probably best to assume this meaning: "mental or physical activity as a means of earning income; employment". (Source: New Oxford American Dictionary).
cperciva 10y ago
You are phrasing this rather politely. Thank you!

by mafribe 10y ago

abalone 10y ago

> Parental leave is a social mechanism to avoid work And there's the sexism: the idea that raising children is not "work". Anyone who believes caring for a newborn is not hard work is welcome to try it and report back.

mafribe 10y ago
Most parents have a deep emotional bond with the children, especially when they they are vulnerable babies. It's probably the strongest emotional bond humans can form. Due to this bond, the relationship between children and their parents is completely different than the relationship between a corporation and its employees. There are no performance goals, there are no annual reviews, there is no stack ranking. Most parents would die for their children, who would die for their boss? If the relationship between you and your children is like that between you and your employer, you are probably not doing it right ... You can also look at this from a power angle: what do feminist typically campaign for? Do they typically campaign for mandatory patertal leave to match or exceed maternal leave? This would be the case if looking after one's children was such a drag. Nope, they are typically quite happy with women getting the biggest chunk of parental leave, but they want society to view maternal leave as work on par with working in a company.
- fit2rule 10y ago
  Am Dad, can confirm: kids are very, very much work. Hard work. Very, very difficult at times. But the rewards are like no other. As a parent, I have a disinclination to consider parenting 'work', as in 'I should get paid for this because it sucks', because I don't think that all things that suck should be paid for, in general. Life does suck. Deal with it. And the suckiness of parenting is in no way at all the same level of suck as, say, having to do a Timesheet every single day and accounting for every 6 minutes of effort in order to get paid a pittance, and so on. Because you can't say: this human being is costing me $__ amount. To incentivize - or even, associate - parenting work as an under-privileged system of unpaid labor is to allow the conditions of human slavery to slip ever slightly more through the door. It speaks much of any -ism that claims that child-rearing isn't one of the truly greatest privileges for any living being, sentinent or otherwise, to experience.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
tzs 10y ago
"Work", like many words in English, has multiple meanings. Unless someone clearly indicates otherwise, when discussing differences in pay it is probably best to assume this meaning: "mental or physical activity as a means of earning income; employment". (Source: New Oxford American Dictionary).

cperciva 10y ago

You are phrasing this rather politely. Thank you!