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You know, he's not the only HN reader in Japan... ;) I'm not sure what needs commenting. The article is quite in-depth and mostly fits with my experience. I ca
by ramchip 17y ago
You know, he's not the only HN reader in Japan... ;)
I'm not sure what needs commenting. The article is quite in-depth and mostly fits with my experience. I can add an anecdote, perhaps, on this part: The Japanese are so serious about work that even work-related parties are mandatory. If you don't go to a company party, you're not part of the team. If you're not part of the team, it's possible you're not actually working at the company.
This is very real. I live in a university dorm and I'm friend with one of the Japanese assistants working here. He was nearly fired because he wasn't going to nomikai (drinking parties) with the other assistants and the manager often enough. He wasn't going because he had to study for exams and prepare a trip. He got a long email from one of his older colleagues saying that "maybe he wasn't cut out for the residence assistant lifestyle" and that as the youngest one it was his duty to do better to fit in the group. All that even though he was, as far as I could see, the only one to actually socialize with the foreign residents (that's supposed to be his job)...
Incidentally, my university keeps a fairly strict separation between foreign and local students. Exchange students live in the same building as the sports club members for my university (the teams are required to live together), but we're not allowed to go into their area or for them to come. People who learn Japanese here are rather encouraged to stay together and not mix with the Japanese students (except those who want to practice English). It's what they call tatemae/honne: the uni wants to give an air of internationalism, but it doesn't really matter to them if it's true or not - just that it looks like it.
I'm in a way lucky to be in engineering, so that I take all my classes with local students, but I've had to deal with many exceptions and needed special permission from all teachers I take a lesson under. I'm literally the only undergrad exchange student on my campus. To their credit however, I've always felt welcomed by teachers - I feel like a few have travelled and actually wish their students were more exposed to other countries.
I've also seen a professor say to his new undergrad students (unpaid interns) that "from now on, the laboratory lifestyle is going to be the main thing for you" (main in English). Life in Japan is defined by your group, and it mostly goes from school, to laboratory (or intern work), then to the company. At each point people are expected to dedicate a lot of time to being with their group.
- derefr 17y agoFor some reason, I'm getting an (obviously wrong) impression from this conversation that the only type of work you can get in Japan comes in the form of big-business cubicle farms. patio11's input would be interesting here because he's getting by without working at one of these.
- patio11 17y agoBig-business cubicle farms and salarymanhood are only about a third of the Japanese economy/labor force. Wave me down someday when I have more free time and I'll gladly talk about this, or you can just look out your door in the US at someone working and ask "Do they have that sort of job in Japan?" and I'll tell you, right now, the answer is yes. We have people selling food out of carts, bored DMV clerks who punch out at 5:00, part-time English teachers, retirees who run cafes, quirky musicians who made stuff for the App Store (my town has multiple App Store millionaires), and folks working at the 7-11. That said, I think you may have gotten the wrong impression about what I do for a day job. For about three of the last five years, and continuing through the end of this month, I've had a job that virtually defines Japanese salarymanhood, making Big Freaking Enterprise Web Apps for a multi-national with thousands of employees that is listed on the stock exchange.
- gcheong 17y ago"quirky musicians who made stuff for the App Store (my town has multiple App Store millionaires)" Examples?
- pwim 17y agoI worked in a small-medium business in Tokyo for a couple of years. The developers were primarily other foreigners, but the rest of the company was Japanese. The company never really had any drinking parties, and from my perspective I wish there had been. On the other hand, I never really worked overtime, never felt pressure to do so, and didn't suffer from any of the other major stereotypical problems. For the last year I've been running my own consulting firm here. Around me it seems like there are many other people do their own innovative things here, but maybe those are just the circles I run in.