6 ms·

> Who can afford to keep coding after an 8-hour work day of coding? Who doesn't get harassed in the open-source community? 20-year-old white guys with no respon

> Who can afford to keep coding after an 8-hour work day of coding? Who doesn't get harassed in the open-source community? 20-year-old white guys with no responsibilities Yeah, stopped reading at this point. Your "intersectional social justice theory" is just casual sexism and racism to me.

stedaniels 10y ago
Uhuh. Because the author didn't list half a dozen examples you cast them as sexist and racist. Bravo. We need more people like you in society!
- stingraycharles 10y ago
  The point is that the author should have elaborated on the circumstances that are required to be able to do that, rather than generalizing based on gender or race.
- gh-lfneu28 10y ago
  No, because the author specifically singled out a sex and a race in a sweeping generalization in negative context with no reasoning -- we cast her as sexist and racist. But on the second part I agree - we do need more people like Wintamute in society.
spraak 10y ago
Maybe racist by the dictionary definition (judging by skin color) but it holds no force against actually preventing a white male from doing anything. I as a white male can underachieve my way into anything while other genders and people of color must work much harder for the same.
- zo1 10y ago
  >"Maybe racist by the dictionary definition" That is the only definition that matters. Everything else is subjective, relative and open to abuse by bad people from all sides. >"I as a white male can underachieve my way into anything while other genders and people of color must work much harder for the same." Have you seen white people in poverty? They are no different than black people in poverty, and are just as needing of our help. To make a distinction and help one over the other is plain old racism according to the dictionary/textbook definition and has no place in an inclusive society. #Edit. Formatting.
  - zepto 10y ago
    I agree that white people in poverty need help. However ignoring that black people face different challenges and are in fact differentialy affected by prejudice because of the existing power structure is itself perpetuating racism. The end goal is to treat everyone the same. Calling for colorblindness doesn't achieve that. Edit: Also, yes I have seen white people in poverty. Poverty is no different for them. However they are still treated better by the police, other institutions and large sections of society.
    - spraak 10y ago
      > However they are still treated better by the police, other institutions and large sections of society. This is exactly my point, thank you.
  - acdha 10y ago
    > Have you seen white people in poverty? They are no different than black people in poverty, and are just as needing of our help. I don't disagree that this is a huge problem but consider what it's like for someone trying to work their way out when they obviously, unavoidably don't fit in. The key point here is simply recognizing that different areas of discrimination have different impacts and they combine super-linearly. If you're poor but white and male, once you get started on the skill ladder you'll be able to quickly adopt many of the other cultural trappings and start getting breaks, which are self-reinforcing. In tech, say you go to a local OSS developers meetup. You're hiring and there's a bearded white guy with a messenger bag who sounds interested in ES6 — do you stop to quiz them about whether they grew up in Palo Alto or the more dismal parts of upstate NY before telling them to apply? The same process often goes down a different path if the person in question is female, latino, black, etc. and someone subconsciously wonders whether they're as qualified and that conversation doesn't happen at all if someone came to a meetup or two but felt out of place and decided not to keep attending. That kind of thing happening a couple of times early in someone's career can have a massive impact on their lifetime trajectory and because so much of it is subconscious it can happen even if everyone involved would have chosen otherwise if asked. In much of the business world, someone from a poor white background has to watch their accent and learn to wear a suit, etc. An African-American can do the same thing but will also have to deal with being confused for lower-level staff or even the security guard, caterer, etc. Sure, someone motivated can rise above that but simply having to think about it, or spend time ensuring that you're always bringing your A game to your attire, social negotiation, etc. is a distraction from the actual business that some people are fortunate enough not to have to deal with.

stedaniels 10y ago

Uhuh. Because the author didn't list half a dozen examples you cast them as sexist and racist. Bravo. We need more people like you in society!

stingraycharles 10y ago
The point is that the author should have elaborated on the circumstances that are required to be able to do that, rather than generalizing based on gender or race.
gh-lfneu28 10y ago
No, because the author specifically singled out a sex and a race in a sweeping generalization in negative context with no reasoning -- we cast her as sexist and racist. But on the second part I agree - we do need more people like Wintamute in society.

spraak 10y ago

Maybe racist by the dictionary definition (judging by skin color) but it holds no force against actually preventing a white male from doing anything. I as a white male can underachieve my way into anything while other genders and people of color must work much harder for the same.

zo1 10y ago
>"Maybe racist by the dictionary definition" That is the only definition that matters. Everything else is subjective, relative and open to abuse by bad people from all sides. >"I as a white male can underachieve my way into anything while other genders and people of color must work much harder for the same." Have you seen white people in poverty? They are no different than black people in poverty, and are just as needing of our help. To make a distinction and help one over the other is plain old racism according to the dictionary/textbook definition and has no place in an inclusive society. #Edit. Formatting.
- zepto 10y ago
  I agree that white people in poverty need help. However ignoring that black people face different challenges and are in fact differentialy affected by prejudice because of the existing power structure is itself perpetuating racism. The end goal is to treat everyone the same. Calling for colorblindness doesn't achieve that. Edit: Also, yes I have seen white people in poverty. Poverty is no different for them. However they are still treated better by the police, other institutions and large sections of society.
  - spraak 10y ago
    > However they are still treated better by the police, other institutions and large sections of society. This is exactly my point, thank you.
- acdha 10y ago
  > Have you seen white people in poverty? They are no different than black people in poverty, and are just as needing of our help. I don't disagree that this is a huge problem but consider what it's like for someone trying to work their way out when they obviously, unavoidably don't fit in. The key point here is simply recognizing that different areas of discrimination have different impacts and they combine super-linearly. If you're poor but white and male, once you get started on the skill ladder you'll be able to quickly adopt many of the other cultural trappings and start getting breaks, which are self-reinforcing. In tech, say you go to a local OSS developers meetup. You're hiring and there's a bearded white guy with a messenger bag who sounds interested in ES6 — do you stop to quiz them about whether they grew up in Palo Alto or the more dismal parts of upstate NY before telling them to apply? The same process often goes down a different path if the person in question is female, latino, black, etc. and someone subconsciously wonders whether they're as qualified and that conversation doesn't happen at all if someone came to a meetup or two but felt out of place and decided not to keep attending. That kind of thing happening a couple of times early in someone's career can have a massive impact on their lifetime trajectory and because so much of it is subconscious it can happen even if everyone involved would have chosen otherwise if asked. In much of the business world, someone from a poor white background has to watch their accent and learn to wear a suit, etc. An African-American can do the same thing but will also have to deal with being confused for lower-level staff or even the security guard, caterer, etc. Sure, someone motivated can rise above that but simply having to think about it, or spend time ensuring that you're always bringing your A game to your attire, social negotiation, etc. is a distraction from the actual business that some people are fortunate enough not to have to deal with.