5 ms·

Why are we making a special case for software developers, on points we would agree on in other professions? Let's say you're making a movie, and you're hiring

by Ace17 10y ago

Why are we making a special case for software developers, on points we would agree on in other professions? Let's say you're making a movie, and you're hiring your music composer. Both candidates have nearly identical CVs/experience/recommandations. - Candidate 'A' says "I'm only doing this for money, I can't show you any of my work because of NDAs". - Candidate 'B' says "I spend a lot of time composing in my freetime, here's a link to my soundcloud page". Which one are you going to hire?

raverbashing 10y ago
Do you ask your doctor if he does charity work? I'd also think musician NDAs are in place while the project is not out, while developer one are usually longer
- kinkdr 10y ago
  No, but on the other hand, do you think Jordan became what he became just by merely showing up for team training every day?
  - saiya-jin 10y ago
    no company in this world can afford, or even realistically expect to have a team full of Jordans. would be nice for the owners, but that's not how this world is laid out
  - yoz-y 10y ago
    There is a world of difference between "showing up for training" and "not having life outside basketball"
  - PhasmaFelis 10y ago
    A lot of people are taking the article as an attack on people who really do want to code 24/7. I don't think that was the intent, though I suppose the author could have been more diplomatic about it. If nothing satisfies you more than throwing your entire being into your work, then that's fine. Do what you love, and be happy. The problem isn't the people who are blissfully coding from sunup to sundown. The problem is the people who would prefer to have some more time for themselves and their friends and loved ones, and are buffaloed (by both supervisors and peers) into believing that that's not allowed. It's infuriating to see people being treated like that. If the author seemed angry or confrontational, that's why. There's enough work in this industry that everyone should be able to find their niche.
whiteshadow 10y ago
I definitely appreciate the intention of the article and hope we can get to a more balanced society where one does not feel so much peer pressure to overachieve at the cost of health/wellbeing, but you make a very fair point: Candidate B, who lives and breaths the craft might have a leg up over the competition, merely because (s)he is so - I am afraid to use this word - passionate, about the occupation in question.
pjc50 10y ago
I can't show you any of my work because of NDAs This is not their fault, and a real serious problem with the way developer recruitment works. You can't judge people by their previous work. Whereas in other creative industries everyone has a portfolio or showreel, and you can't get hired without one.
- Amezarak 10y ago
  Yeah, this is really frustrating to me. No job I've had allowed for contributing to open source - the projects themselves where done under NDA, and you were certainly not working on anything that wasn't directly billable at work. On top of that, anything I do outside of work is (nominally) the property of the company. And I really don't have time to do any programming outside of work, even if I wanted to - I don't have any itches that need scratching. Other people are saying "well, just find time". "Finding time" requires sleeping less or cutting out responsibilities. (I am HNing this morning while eating breakfast, if you're wondering. :) This is really frustrating when looking for a new job and probably two-thirds of them want to see my Github profile.
dominotw 10y ago
>Why are we making a special case for software developers, on points we would agree on in other professions? Because our profession mixes work and pleasure like no other. Lots of people work on pet software projects outside of work for 'fun', we go to tech meetups and hackathons for 'fun'.

by Ace17 10y ago

raverbashing 10y ago

Do you ask your doctor if he does charity work? I'd also think musician NDAs are in place while the project is not out, while developer one are usually longer

kinkdr 10y ago
No, but on the other hand, do you think Jordan became what he became just by merely showing up for team training every day?
- saiya-jin 10y ago
  no company in this world can afford, or even realistically expect to have a team full of Jordans. would be nice for the owners, but that's not how this world is laid out
- yoz-y 10y ago
  There is a world of difference between "showing up for training" and "not having life outside basketball"
- PhasmaFelis 10y ago
  A lot of people are taking the article as an attack on people who really do want to code 24/7. I don't think that was the intent, though I suppose the author could have been more diplomatic about it. If nothing satisfies you more than throwing your entire being into your work, then that's fine. Do what you love, and be happy. The problem isn't the people who are blissfully coding from sunup to sundown. The problem is the people who would prefer to have some more time for themselves and their friends and loved ones, and are buffaloed (by both supervisors and peers) into believing that that's not allowed. It's infuriating to see people being treated like that. If the author seemed angry or confrontational, that's why. There's enough work in this industry that everyone should be able to find their niche.

whiteshadow 10y ago

I definitely appreciate the intention of the article and hope we can get to a more balanced society where one does not feel so much peer pressure to overachieve at the cost of health/wellbeing, but you make a very fair point: Candidate B, who lives and breaths the craft might have a leg up over the competition, merely because (s)he is so - I am afraid to use this word - passionate, about the occupation in question.

pjc50 10y ago

I can't show you any of my work because of NDAs This is not their fault, and a real serious problem with the way developer recruitment works. You can't judge people by their previous work. Whereas in other creative industries everyone has a portfolio or showreel, and you can't get hired without one.

Amezarak 10y ago
Yeah, this is really frustrating to me. No job I've had allowed for contributing to open source - the projects themselves where done under NDA, and you were certainly not working on anything that wasn't directly billable at work. On top of that, anything I do outside of work is (nominally) the property of the company. And I really don't have time to do any programming outside of work, even if I wanted to - I don't have any itches that need scratching. Other people are saying "well, just find time". "Finding time" requires sleeping less or cutting out responsibilities. (I am HNing this morning while eating breakfast, if you're wondering. :) This is really frustrating when looking for a new job and probably two-thirds of them want to see my Github profile.

dominotw 10y ago

>Why are we making a special case for software developers, on points we would agree on in other professions? Because our profession mixes work and pleasure like no other. Lots of people work on pet software projects outside of work for 'fun', we go to tech meetups and hackathons for 'fun'.