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A pile of hypocricy. Why on Earth if you are so much about self-determination of Saharawi, you force them to learn English in a soft game of neocolonialism, ins

A pile of hypocricy. Why on Earth if you are so much about self-determination of Saharawi, you force them to learn English in a soft game of neocolonialism, instead of putting money into development of their local industry and culture? Because you want these people to convert to mobile workforce, seduce them to leave and get resources from their land.

etangent 10y ago
You think it'd be better if Saharawi learned Chinese instead?
- ommunist 10y ago
  Honest position and the noble one would be to learn Berberian and develop Berberian curriculum. This is what Russians did in the 17th century with themselves, this is what the Soviet Union did for Ukrainians, Lettons, Chukchi and lots of other nations.
jpatokal 10y ago
"Their local industry and culture"? Most Sahrawis live in refugee camps in the desert behind the Moroccan Wall [1], an extraordinarily poor location for any sort of industry or trade. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moroccan_Wall https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moroccan_Wall
- AtlasLion 10y ago
  where did you get this "most" claim from? Western Saharan for a big part live in big cities inside the Moroccan zone, only ~100k live in camps such as tindouf.
walrus01 10y ago
Force them to learn English? It is the defacto language of science and technology. For a population of less than 500,000 they're not going to develop locally created curriculum for, for example, masters degrees in electrical engineering and medical sciences in the Berber language.
- ommunist 10y ago
  Classy colonialist position. If you cannot develop your own curriculum, we will move you and take your land and resources. Do you really think First American Nations had a poor life just because they had no electricity?
  - walrus01 10y ago
    Maybe they'd rather learn Chinese? I don't care what they study nor do I want to "colonize" their desert. Anything that improves their standard of living and political self determination is probably an improvement at this point.
    - ommunist 10y ago
      If 'you' will not, China can get control of that thorium in that sands.
  - fennecfoxen 10y ago
    The First American Nations had lots of land and discretion to raise crops, hunt, and self-determine their political futures on a tribal level. These guys don't. There are 165,000 people in refugee camps because the King has control of their land and will basically never give it back. They're already moved. Their land and resources are already gone. The only way they're likely to get it back is an ugly war of some sort, a substantial part of which must be waged by external powers on behalf of these people or they will simply lose. As this war simply isn't going to happen, the only sane way forward to get these people and their future generations out of this misery is to get them out of there and send them to places where they will be recognized as human beings instead of as an obnoxious political problem. In the current state of the world this is, for better or worse, much more practical when they are capable of supporting themselves and prospering in an urban environment. That takes education, and broadly speaking education in English is probably the choice that gives them the best options right now, unless somewhere non-English-speaking is specifically offering to give them a break (which would be smashing, doubly so if the Somewhere is Morocco itself, but I've not heard of it). And getting just one of those people out of there and into an English-speaking nation has already contributed substantially to international recognition of their plight through this article.
tim333 10y ago
I'm not sure who's being a hypocrite? New Republic for reporting the situation?
- ommunist 10y ago
  This is not a report. This is PR of some stinky agenda the US has for that region. http://www.middleeasteye.net/in-depth/features/us-oil-company-set-violate-international-law-western-sahara-883955500 http://www.middleeasteye.net/in-depth/features/us-oil-compan...
unlinker 10y ago
Local industry and culture? What are you even talking about? Colonialism is probably one of the best things to happen to a lot of territories, like for example most of Africa.
- ommunist 10y ago
  Tell that to lacota nation too.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

etangent 10y ago

You think it'd be better if Saharawi learned Chinese instead?

ommunist 10y ago
Honest position and the noble one would be to learn Berberian and develop Berberian curriculum. This is what Russians did in the 17th century with themselves, this is what the Soviet Union did for Ukrainians, Lettons, Chukchi and lots of other nations.

jpatokal 10y ago

"Their local industry and culture"? Most Sahrawis live in refugee camps in the desert behind the Moroccan Wall [1], an extraordinarily poor location for any sort of industry or trade. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moroccan_Wall https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moroccan_Wall

AtlasLion 10y ago
where did you get this "most" claim from? Western Saharan for a big part live in big cities inside the Moroccan zone, only ~100k live in camps such as tindouf.

walrus01 10y ago

Force them to learn English? It is the defacto language of science and technology. For a population of less than 500,000 they're not going to develop locally created curriculum for, for example, masters degrees in electrical engineering and medical sciences in the Berber language.

ommunist 10y ago
Classy colonialist position. If you cannot develop your own curriculum, we will move you and take your land and resources. Do you really think First American Nations had a poor life just because they had no electricity?
- walrus01 10y ago
  Maybe they'd rather learn Chinese? I don't care what they study nor do I want to "colonize" their desert. Anything that improves their standard of living and political self determination is probably an improvement at this point.
  - ommunist 10y ago
    If 'you' will not, China can get control of that thorium in that sands.
- fennecfoxen 10y ago
  The First American Nations had lots of land and discretion to raise crops, hunt, and self-determine their political futures on a tribal level. These guys don't. There are 165,000 people in refugee camps because the King has control of their land and will basically never give it back. They're already moved. Their land and resources are already gone. The only way they're likely to get it back is an ugly war of some sort, a substantial part of which must be waged by external powers on behalf of these people or they will simply lose. As this war simply isn't going to happen, the only sane way forward to get these people and their future generations out of this misery is to get them out of there and send them to places where they will be recognized as human beings instead of as an obnoxious political problem. In the current state of the world this is, for better or worse, much more practical when they are capable of supporting themselves and prospering in an urban environment. That takes education, and broadly speaking education in English is probably the choice that gives them the best options right now, unless somewhere non-English-speaking is specifically offering to give them a break (which would be smashing, doubly so if the Somewhere is Morocco itself, but I've not heard of it). And getting just one of those people out of there and into an English-speaking nation has already contributed substantially to international recognition of their plight through this article.

tim333 10y ago

I'm not sure who's being a hypocrite? New Republic for reporting the situation?

ommunist 10y ago
This is not a report. This is PR of some stinky agenda the US has for that region. http://www.middleeasteye.net/in-depth/features/us-oil-company-set-violate-international-law-western-sahara-883955500 http://www.middleeasteye.net/in-depth/features/us-oil-compan...

unlinker 10y ago

Local industry and culture? What are you even talking about? Colonialism is probably one of the best things to happen to a lot of territories, like for example most of Africa.

ommunist 10y ago
Tell that to lacota nation too.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]