6 ms·

Link to Project Ara Developer Edition page: https://atap.google.com/ara/ https://atap.google.com/ara/ r/android seems unimpressed because many of the initially

by cryptoz 10y ago

Link to Project Ara Developer Edition page: https://atap.google.com/ara/ https://atap.google.com/ara/ r/android seems unimpressed because many of the initially removable components are no longer removable (at least, as indicated by marketing videos) [1]. However, it seems silly to me to get upset about this because this is a Developer Edition and Google clearly had to limit the scope of the project in order to ship. Though, one wonders if there are physical limits causing the CPU, GPU, battery, and display to be non-removable. We'll see. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/4k9bwr/project_ara_developer_edition_coming_fall_2016/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/4k9bwr/project_ara...

LeoPanthera 10y ago
I haven't read the Reddit comments (and I don't even own an Android phone) but... aren't those the things you would MOST want to upgrade in the future?
- digi_owl 10y ago
  Bingo. SOC, screen and battery define the longevity of the device. Being able to upgrade those piecemeal moved mobile devices closer to that of the desktop PC (frankly if we could move the CPU onto a daughterboard i would be dancing with joy). Also, screens are what most often break on a device, because glass don't deal well with sudden applications of force. Making them modular with a defined attachment system would be godsend for many butterfingers and parents. All in all, what they are presenting now is things that can be done USB, WIFI or bluetooth.
  - iainmerrick 10y ago
    At least the modules will get power from the case (I assume) so they won't all need their own batteries and chargers. That could be handy.
- chillingeffect 10y ago
  Given the economics of today's limitations, yes, that would be. But if you knew, for example, that your camera could be used with your next two CPUs, you might make a longer term investment in a higher-quality camera.
- petra 10y ago
  I think OEM's pushed Google a bit, not wanting to kill the upgrade cycle. One sign for that is the non-removable battery - which is easy to do technically.
  - rtkwe 10y ago
    I'm not so sure. Look at the module sizes the largest one at the bottom is still much smaller than modern batteries. If the battery had to be in one of those they'd have issues with longevity. Maybe allowing additional packs but trying to fit a main battery into it is going to require compromises somewhere.
x1798DE 10y ago
They couldn't even make the battery removable? That's pretty weak for something touted as a modular phone.
- notatoad 10y ago
  the core of the phone contains a non-removable battery. That doesn't mean you can't attach supplementary battery modules to it.
  - x1798DE 10y ago
    You can attach a supplemental battery pack to any phone, but many normal phones (such as every phone I've ever owned) have replaceable batteries. It seems hard to believe that if you're going to make a phone specifically touted as being modular you'd be less modular than other phones already on the market.
    - notatoad 10y ago
      The original Ara prototype had a small internal battery to allow hot-swapping of the battery modules. I'm not sure if this has changed and it's now more of a standalone battery, but it used to only give you about 5 minutes of power. One of the big criticisms of the LG G5's claims of "modularity" was that the battery couldn't be hot swapped, so it seems that some level of internal battery is necessary for modularity.
- asdz 10y ago
  if they are making all battery removable, most probably they will have to start a support line for everyone who can't power on their device :) Cust A - "Why can't I power on my device? I charge it"
squeaky-clean 10y ago
> because many of the initially removable components are no longer removable It's not that "many" of the components aren't available, it's all the components anyone cared about. It seems like you won't be able to swap out the CPU, GPU, RAM, battery or screen. So if you want a phone with a faster CPU, you need to buy an entirely new phone, which goes against all the hype for these modular phone plans. From the venturebeat article linked below: "The idea of Ara is to ensure that your devices are future-proofed, meaning that the whole “upgrade every two years” mentality is no longer a thing. ". This certainly isn't true. Though I guess it could be slightly cheaper, since you would be just buying a frame, and could pop in your old camera module. There also aren't any modules being shown that can clue you into what the potential is. The only thing recognizable is a camera module, and what I'm guessing is a small e-ink display., every other module is just an unlabeled colored/textured rectangle. In every article about it the only example ever used is a camera. The module idea actually seems really cool, a standard way for anyone to create hardware for your phone. But I think the "modular phone. Upgrade one bit a time. Never obsolete." marketing angle is a blatant lie. Edit: I agree with one of the jokes in that Reddit thread about this Here's what I want for my six modules: 1. Camera 2. Battery 3. Battery 4. Battery 5. Battery 6. Battery Because really, what else is there?
- Klathmon 10y ago
  From the article: >“The key here,” Camargo says, “is to develop the functionality you don’t get on your smartphone today. I’ll give you the smartphone, so you don’t have to worry about it.” It sounds to me the reason their "dev kit" includes so much "out of the box" is to spur development of newer more interesting modules. Like you said, we all know that camera, storage, battery modules will be there, but they are pushing to see what others can come up with (blood sugar testers, credit-card readers, touchpads, temperature sensors, etc...)
- 8note 10y ago
  Id go for two cameras, and try to hack some 3D recording out of it. and replacement inertial sensors, those always seem to break on me. edit: actually, it would be cool to put an FPGA on there.
DiabloD3 10y ago
That basically kills it for me. The only reason I was interested was to be able to transform a phone into a larger tablet just by swapping the screen module out. Oh well.
- onion2k 10y ago
  There's no reason why you couldn't add a "tablet screen" module. It doesn't have to replace an existing feature; a module could suppliment a feature.
  - JBiserkov 10y ago
    You are correct, and this has been done already: http://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?sName=Padfone http://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?sName=Padfone The disadvantage is that you are still carrying the smaller screen without using it, so it adds to the weight/volume of the device.
digi_owl 10y ago
Except that they had a more modular device booting on stage a year ago. And shipping this as a dev device will limit the scope of ideas developers will implement.
- Klathmon 10y ago
  Actually it looks like the reason their dev kit includes so much in the "base" is exactly the opposite reason: > “The key here,” Camargo says, “is to develop the functionality you don’t get on your smartphone today. I’ll give you the smartphone, so you don’t have to worry about it.” They are including an entire phone as the "base" in order to get developers to create new and interesting modules for it. Everyone and anyone can make a battery, or an SD card reader, they want to see what other things people can come up with.
  - digi_owl 10y ago
    Hrmf, between this and all the talk about a module marketplace i wonder if they are trying to avoid a "PC clones" scenario. Meaning that if all they control is the endo, and someone else releases a clean room implementation of same, Google's control of the ecosystem goes out the window...
Zak 10y ago
It seems to me that treating the frame containing these components as just another module is reasonable enough. That said, the battery is the number one item I want to be easily replaceable. Not only is it a big help to be able to carry spares, but Li-ion batteries degrade over time and put a limit on the useful life of a device even if its capabilities still suit the user.
listic 10y ago
> many of the initially removable components are no longer removable 'many' is CPU+GPU+RAM, which was going to be a single module, but now is part of the frame, right?
listic 10y ago
I like that they showed a pill box application. That's the one I could use in my smartphone. It doesn't have to be just a passive box; it could have a companion app and door open sensor. I'm using a separate device for that: http://www.amazon.com/Reizen-Vibrating-Five-Alarm-Pill/dp/B00I5PZEQM http://www.amazon.com/Reizen-Vibrating-Five-Alarm-Pill/dp/B0...

by cryptoz 10y ago

LeoPanthera 10y ago

I haven't read the Reddit comments (and I don't even own an Android phone) but... aren't those the things you would MOST want to upgrade in the future?

digi_owl 10y ago
Bingo. SOC, screen and battery define the longevity of the device. Being able to upgrade those piecemeal moved mobile devices closer to that of the desktop PC (frankly if we could move the CPU onto a daughterboard i would be dancing with joy). Also, screens are what most often break on a device, because glass don't deal well with sudden applications of force. Making them modular with a defined attachment system would be godsend for many butterfingers and parents. All in all, what they are presenting now is things that can be done USB, WIFI or bluetooth.
- iainmerrick 10y ago
  At least the modules will get power from the case (I assume) so they won't all need their own batteries and chargers. That could be handy.
chillingeffect 10y ago
Given the economics of today's limitations, yes, that would be. But if you knew, for example, that your camera could be used with your next two CPUs, you might make a longer term investment in a higher-quality camera.
petra 10y ago
I think OEM's pushed Google a bit, not wanting to kill the upgrade cycle. One sign for that is the non-removable battery - which is easy to do technically.
- rtkwe 10y ago
  I'm not so sure. Look at the module sizes the largest one at the bottom is still much smaller than modern batteries. If the battery had to be in one of those they'd have issues with longevity. Maybe allowing additional packs but trying to fit a main battery into it is going to require compromises somewhere.

x1798DE 10y ago

They couldn't even make the battery removable? That's pretty weak for something touted as a modular phone.

notatoad 10y ago
the core of the phone contains a non-removable battery. That doesn't mean you can't attach supplementary battery modules to it.
- x1798DE 10y ago
  You can attach a supplemental battery pack to any phone, but many normal phones (such as every phone I've ever owned) have replaceable batteries. It seems hard to believe that if you're going to make a phone specifically touted as being modular you'd be less modular than other phones already on the market.
  - notatoad 10y ago
    The original Ara prototype had a small internal battery to allow hot-swapping of the battery modules. I'm not sure if this has changed and it's now more of a standalone battery, but it used to only give you about 5 minutes of power. One of the big criticisms of the LG G5's claims of "modularity" was that the battery couldn't be hot swapped, so it seems that some level of internal battery is necessary for modularity.
asdz 10y ago
if they are making all battery removable, most probably they will have to start a support line for everyone who can't power on their device :) Cust A - "Why can't I power on my device? I charge it"

squeaky-clean 10y ago

> because many of the initially removable components are no longer removable It's not that "many" of the components aren't available, it's all the components anyone cared about. It seems like you won't be able to swap out the CPU, GPU, RAM, battery or screen. So if you want a phone with a faster CPU, you need to buy an entirely new phone, which goes against all the hype for these modular phone plans. From the venturebeat article linked below: "The idea of Ara is to ensure that your devices are future-proofed, meaning that the whole “upgrade every two years” mentality is no longer a thing. ". This certainly isn't true. Though I guess it could be slightly cheaper, since you would be just buying a frame, and could pop in your old camera module. There also aren't any modules being shown that can clue you into what the potential is. The only thing recognizable is a camera module, and what I'm guessing is a small e-ink display., every other module is just an unlabeled colored/textured rectangle. In every article about it the only example ever used is a camera. The module idea actually seems really cool, a standard way for anyone to create hardware for your phone. But I think the "modular phone. Upgrade one bit a time. Never obsolete." marketing angle is a blatant lie. Edit: I agree with one of the jokes in that Reddit thread about this Here's what I want for my six modules: 1. Camera 2. Battery 3. Battery 4. Battery 5. Battery 6. Battery Because really, what else is there?

Klathmon 10y ago
From the article: >“The key here,” Camargo says, “is to develop the functionality you don’t get on your smartphone today. I’ll give you the smartphone, so you don’t have to worry about it.” It sounds to me the reason their "dev kit" includes so much "out of the box" is to spur development of newer more interesting modules. Like you said, we all know that camera, storage, battery modules will be there, but they are pushing to see what others can come up with (blood sugar testers, credit-card readers, touchpads, temperature sensors, etc...)
8note 10y ago
Id go for two cameras, and try to hack some 3D recording out of it. and replacement inertial sensors, those always seem to break on me. edit: actually, it would be cool to put an FPGA on there.

DiabloD3 10y ago

That basically kills it for me. The only reason I was interested was to be able to transform a phone into a larger tablet just by swapping the screen module out. Oh well.

onion2k 10y ago
There's no reason why you couldn't add a "tablet screen" module. It doesn't have to replace an existing feature; a module could suppliment a feature.
- JBiserkov 10y ago
  You are correct, and this has been done already: http://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?sName=Padfone http://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?sName=Padfone The disadvantage is that you are still carrying the smaller screen without using it, so it adds to the weight/volume of the device.

digi_owl 10y ago

Except that they had a more modular device booting on stage a year ago. And shipping this as a dev device will limit the scope of ideas developers will implement.

Klathmon 10y ago
Actually it looks like the reason their dev kit includes so much in the "base" is exactly the opposite reason: > “The key here,” Camargo says, “is to develop the functionality you don’t get on your smartphone today. I’ll give you the smartphone, so you don’t have to worry about it.” They are including an entire phone as the "base" in order to get developers to create new and interesting modules for it. Everyone and anyone can make a battery, or an SD card reader, they want to see what other things people can come up with.
- digi_owl 10y ago
  Hrmf, between this and all the talk about a module marketplace i wonder if they are trying to avoid a "PC clones" scenario. Meaning that if all they control is the endo, and someone else releases a clean room implementation of same, Google's control of the ecosystem goes out the window...

Zak 10y ago

It seems to me that treating the frame containing these components as just another module is reasonable enough. That said, the battery is the number one item I want to be easily replaceable. Not only is it a big help to be able to carry spares, but Li-ion batteries degrade over time and put a limit on the useful life of a device even if its capabilities still suit the user.

listic 10y ago

> many of the initially removable components are no longer removable 'many' is CPU+GPU+RAM, which was going to be a single module, but now is part of the frame, right?

listic 10y ago

I like that they showed a pill box application. That's the one I could use in my smartphone. It doesn't have to be just a passive box; it could have a companion app and door open sensor. I'm using a separate device for that: http://www.amazon.com/Reizen-Vibrating-Five-Alarm-Pill/dp/B00I5PZEQM http://www.amazon.com/Reizen-Vibrating-Five-Alarm-Pill/dp/B0...