4 ms·

Security and crime: Doublespeak. Wages and medicine: actually more inequality than ever. Life expectancy: scraping the barrel. These aren't concrete things.

by okc 10y ago

Security and crime: Doublespeak. Wages and medicine: actually more inequality than ever. Life expectancy: scraping the barrel. These aren't concrete things. If they were we could, like you say, measure them properly. But even in the best conditions your anlysis would be linking your values to your methods. My point: measuring stuff like this in a 60 year old regime based on self perpetuation and social control is not improvement its indoctrination. For example: are wages higher by mean, mode or median. Or more simply does less crime measure the improvement of a country. I can think of several pertinent examples of regimes and dictators who were quite sucsesfull with crime. Higher life expectancy.. Well that's quite an easy one to improve when you stop starving everyone. I'm not saying all my points are 100% kosher. I'm saying improvement is a very subjective term reaking of contradiction when not simplified or taken out of context.

malaeisd 10y ago
> Higher life expectancy.. Well that's quite an easy one to improve when you stop starving everyone. If that's the only reason, then why is the quality of life so much better in China than in India, the world's largest democracy? For example, - Life expectancy at birth in China is 73.5 years; in India it is 64.4 years. - The infant mortality rate is fifty per thousand in India, compared with just seventeen in China. - The mortality rate for children under five is sixty-six per thousand for Indians and nineteen for the Chinese. - Maternal mortality rate is 230 per 100,000 live births in India and thirty-eight in China. - Only 66 percent of Indian children are immunized with triple vaccine (diphtheria/pertussis/tetanus), as opposed to 97 percent in China. - The mean years of schooling in India were estimated to be 4.4 years, compared with 7.5 years in China. - China’s adult literacy rate is 94 percent, compared with India’s 74 percent. - India's literacy rate for women between the ages of fifteen and twenty-four is still not much above 80 percent, whereas in China it is 99 percent. Source: http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2011/05/12/quality-life-india-vs-china/ http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2011/05/12/quality-life-indi...
- okc 10y ago
  No its not the only reason I have! as I made clear - it wasn't the reason at all. You reply is meaningless without context. It was one example of many providing a point that statistics are misleading. Especially in describing quality of life under a controlling reigeme. Yes some things improve in some way. No - that's not improvement. Its like saying if you sent me to prison my life expectancy, security, and perhaps even literacy might improve. Would I count being in prison an improvement? No. Not unless of course you think I'm guilty, incapable, and need controlling. Edit: typo.
  - malaeisd 10y ago
    So, this is all about perspective then? Somehow not seeing your family members starve or die in childbirth isn't an improvement if they don't have other things you deem important? > Its like saying if you sent me to prison my life expectancy, security, and perhaps even literacy might improve. Would I count being in prison an improvement? No. Let's say I consider this prison to be an improvement to me dying of hunger, then would you be able to accept my perspective? Or would you consider me brainwashed? Just curious, but do you perceive living in China to be the same as living in North Korea?
    - okc 10y ago
      Yes, its all about perspective. Perspective based in reality. Context. Take your childbirth example: mortality rate may have improved. This statement is great without context – of course thats improvement right? Now take the context of forced sterilisation and forced abortion by local corrupt government meeting birth quotas. Thats perspective. What do you base your perspective on? (In response to your question on N.Korea, I don't know anything about North Korea so of course not!) >Let's say I consider this prison to be an improvement to me dying of hunger, then would you be able to accept my perspective? Or would you consider me brainwashed? I would consider you in prison. I would also point out that the prison (government) created the great famine (that made you hungry). Do you really believe that is improvement?
      - malaeisd 10y ago

by okc 10y ago

malaeisd 10y ago

> Higher life expectancy.. Well that's quite an easy one to improve when you stop starving everyone. If that's the only reason, then why is the quality of life so much better in China than in India, the world's largest democracy? For example, - Life expectancy at birth in China is 73.5 years; in India it is 64.4 years. - The infant mortality rate is fifty per thousand in India, compared with just seventeen in China. - The mortality rate for children under five is sixty-six per thousand for Indians and nineteen for the Chinese. - Maternal mortality rate is 230 per 100,000 live births in India and thirty-eight in China. - Only 66 percent of Indian children are immunized with triple vaccine (diphtheria/pertussis/tetanus), as opposed to 97 percent in China. - The mean years of schooling in India were estimated to be 4.4 years, compared with 7.5 years in China. - China’s adult literacy rate is 94 percent, compared with India’s 74 percent. - India's literacy rate for women between the ages of fifteen and twenty-four is still not much above 80 percent, whereas in China it is 99 percent. Source: http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2011/05/12/quality-life-india-vs-china/ http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2011/05/12/quality-life-indi...

okc 10y ago
No its not the only reason I have! as I made clear - it wasn't the reason at all. You reply is meaningless without context. It was one example of many providing a point that statistics are misleading. Especially in describing quality of life under a controlling reigeme. Yes some things improve in some way. No - that's not improvement. Its like saying if you sent me to prison my life expectancy, security, and perhaps even literacy might improve. Would I count being in prison an improvement? No. Not unless of course you think I'm guilty, incapable, and need controlling. Edit: typo.
- malaeisd 10y ago
  So, this is all about perspective then? Somehow not seeing your family members starve or die in childbirth isn't an improvement if they don't have other things you deem important? > Its like saying if you sent me to prison my life expectancy, security, and perhaps even literacy might improve. Would I count being in prison an improvement? No. Let's say I consider this prison to be an improvement to me dying of hunger, then would you be able to accept my perspective? Or would you consider me brainwashed? Just curious, but do you perceive living in China to be the same as living in North Korea?
  - okc 10y ago
    Yes, its all about perspective. Perspective based in reality. Context. Take your childbirth example: mortality rate may have improved. This statement is great without context – of course thats improvement right? Now take the context of forced sterilisation and forced abortion by local corrupt government meeting birth quotas. Thats perspective. What do you base your perspective on? (In response to your question on N.Korea, I don't know anything about North Korea so of course not!) >Let's say I consider this prison to be an improvement to me dying of hunger, then would you be able to accept my perspective? Or would you consider me brainwashed? I would consider you in prison. I would also point out that the prison (government) created the great famine (that made you hungry). Do you really believe that is improvement?
    - malaeisd 10y ago