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How many more new languages do we need? This is getting ridiculous. What does this thing do that Python doesn't do?

bksjdf 10y ago
'How many more new tools do we need? This is getting ridiculous. What does an excavator do that a wooden shovel doesn't do?' Also, python is a steaming pile of crap.
DigitalJack 10y ago
How many pointless comments do we need? This is getting ridiculous. What does your comment add to the conversation that a million other whiners don't do?
- Grishnakh 10y ago
  It points out that we don't need more and more computer languages that no one uses. If you can come up with a language that really makes new contributions or really works better than the existing ones, great, but instead it seems we just have a bunch of me-too languages doing almost the same thing. Languages aren't useful unless there's a critical mass of people developing them, making libraries for them, making good compilers for them, and providing mindshare for them, so that there's enough people competent in them to use them. This is why languages like C and C++ are still used even though there are many valid criticisms of them and supposedly superior alternatives have been developed: the alternatives just haven't been good enough, in many/most cases, to justify switching. C++ may have its warts, for instance, but with all the libraries that exist for it and all the existing code and all the workers familiar with it, it usually makes sense to stick with it rather than switch to something like D or Rust or Swift or Go unless you have a really good reason (like you're developing on iOS where Swift is really well-supported). These days, Python is the de-facto standard for general-purpose type-optional programming, and has a huge amount of libraries and mindshare, and is growing. So why do we need a clone?
  - evanpw 10y ago
    > Python is the de-facto standard for general-purpose type-optional programming Type hints were added to Python only in the most recent version (somewhat controversially), and the interpreter only knows about the syntax; there are no semantics defined. (You have to run an external program if you want to check the types). Why would you say Python is the standard for optional typing?
  - pkroll 10y ago
    The alternatives to C/C++ are so popular that most programming is not done in C/C++ anymore, so your premise seems off. The alternatives have done stunningly well. Rarely, RARELY is someone going to make a language that's radically better than what's currently available. But every new language is a chance to step in the right direction, or confirm that nope, no one wants something like this. We need MORE languages. Hundreds, a thousand more. Mostly they won't be used, but sometimes things will move forward.
krapp 10y ago
We need as many languages as we want to make, otherwise we would have stopped at C.
dang 10y ago
Please don't post unsubstantive dismissals to Hacker News, especially in response to new work. If you have a substantive criticism, fine—please make it respectfully. If you don't, then don't post in these threads. On HN, no one need ever apologize for creating something new, regardless of whether someone else thinks "this thing" is "needed". Most new creations won't end up becoming a huge deal, but that's no reason to trample on them. Indiscriminate trampling just ensures we end up with (a) an ugly, damaged garden, and (b) a culture of the status quo. It's also a vulgar behavior that violates the civility requirements of HN. No one, least of all the trampling internet commentariat, knows how to distinguish what will prove important from what will not prove important. Therefore we should receive new things with respect for the creative spirit, even if we don't personally intend to use them.

'How many more new tools do we need? This is getting ridiculous. What does an excavator do that a wooden shovel doesn't do?' Also, python is a steaming pile of crap.

DigitalJack 10y ago

How many pointless comments do we need? This is getting ridiculous. What does your comment add to the conversation that a million other whiners don't do?

Grishnakh 10y ago
It points out that we don't need more and more computer languages that no one uses. If you can come up with a language that really makes new contributions or really works better than the existing ones, great, but instead it seems we just have a bunch of me-too languages doing almost the same thing. Languages aren't useful unless there's a critical mass of people developing them, making libraries for them, making good compilers for them, and providing mindshare for them, so that there's enough people competent in them to use them. This is why languages like C and C++ are still used even though there are many valid criticisms of them and supposedly superior alternatives have been developed: the alternatives just haven't been good enough, in many/most cases, to justify switching. C++ may have its warts, for instance, but with all the libraries that exist for it and all the existing code and all the workers familiar with it, it usually makes sense to stick with it rather than switch to something like D or Rust or Swift or Go unless you have a really good reason (like you're developing on iOS where Swift is really well-supported). These days, Python is the de-facto standard for general-purpose type-optional programming, and has a huge amount of libraries and mindshare, and is growing. So why do we need a clone?
- evanpw 10y ago
  > Python is the de-facto standard for general-purpose type-optional programming Type hints were added to Python only in the most recent version (somewhat controversially), and the interpreter only knows about the syntax; there are no semantics defined. (You have to run an external program if you want to check the types). Why would you say Python is the standard for optional typing?
- pkroll 10y ago
  The alternatives to C/C++ are so popular that most programming is not done in C/C++ anymore, so your premise seems off. The alternatives have done stunningly well. Rarely, RARELY is someone going to make a language that's radically better than what's currently available. But every new language is a chance to step in the right direction, or confirm that nope, no one wants something like this. We need MORE languages. Hundreds, a thousand more. Mostly they won't be used, but sometimes things will move forward.

krapp 10y ago

We need as many languages as we want to make, otherwise we would have stopped at C.

dang 10y ago

Please don't post unsubstantive dismissals to Hacker News, especially in response to new work. If you have a substantive criticism, fine—please make it respectfully. If you don't, then don't post in these threads. On HN, no one need ever apologize for creating something new, regardless of whether someone else thinks "this thing" is "needed". Most new creations won't end up becoming a huge deal, but that's no reason to trample on them. Indiscriminate trampling just ensures we end up with (a) an ugly, damaged garden, and (b) a culture of the status quo. It's also a vulgar behavior that violates the civility requirements of HN. No one, least of all the trampling internet commentariat, knows how to distinguish what will prove important from what will not prove important. Therefore we should receive new things with respect for the creative spirit, even if we don't personally intend to use them.