7 ms·

Mike is a respected member of both HN and the Cocoa community. Are you implying that he's a shill?

by shifter 10y ago

okc 10y ago
No, I'm not implying that. I'm implying that I don't understand how his arguments flow - they seem self defeating. For the reasons outlined above. I don't mean it personally, and I don't really care if he is respected or not. I just wanna get to the bottom of why, how and what he is getting at. And from his writing style it seem I am led to doubt he doesn't really believe what he is implying. Of course, I might and probqly an wrong so would appreciate clarification. The argument of: its not just propaganda, its also a reflection of development - doesn't wash with me.
okc 10y ago
I still don't think so, but can I ask you a question. Do you think there are some strange posts on these threads, written with an underlying tinge of propaganda (not everyone). This morning I woke up to find my original post no further replied to, but down voted from 8 to 2. I also seem to be having a conversation with someone who registers a new name each time they post (I presume). And the whole thread is about controlling social media - particularly through controlling perception of public opinion. Honest question, what do you think? Irony, conspiracy, time zone differences.
- studentrob 10y ago
  > Do you think there are some strange posts on these threads, written with an underlying tinge of propaganda (not everyone). You mean like yourself here [1] where you are touting government propaganda? The thing about propaganda is, the more one-sided a conversation becomes, the less interesting it is. There's no single viewpoint that can pretend to take two opposing sides of an argument. Good internet comments are succinct, point out flaws in other comments' arguments, and are on the minds of other readers. If a comment thread doesn't make me think, I lose interest. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11744448 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11744448
  - okc 10y ago
    Explain. Explain one country that I am in any way supporting the propaganda of. If its because I am drawing attention to Taiwan not being fully recognised, as per our earlier thread. Then that is an assumption based in the fact of it being a non-un member. But I'm drawing attention to the type of corruption that let's countries (such as China and the UK) bully Taiwan. Sound like a propaganda line? Explain which country and how? Please. Can't believe you are lecturing on succinct arguments and at the same time calling my post propaganda without any reason. Read your own post and apply it to yourself.
    - studentrob 10y ago
      > Explain one country that I am in any way supporting the propaganda of. You said propaganda is an effective means of helping China gain international influence: > Public opinion outside of China is very important for business and strategy. Present China as an improving progressive regime, smooth over its human rights problems, and china can gain more influence internationally. [1] I disagree 100%. It's not effective and it hurts China's relations. Relationships are built on trust. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11744448 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11744448
      - okc 10y ago
        Come on. You said I was touting government propaganda. If by that you mean exposing it and its influence. Then yeah.. I hereby tout all government propaganda and always will do. I wish international relations were built on trust. But that's a bollocks and idealised view. My example of the UN membership is quite fitting. Small countries with no interest in Taiwan have been directly bribed by china to vote against letting Taiwan join. Call that trust? Point out why and how this isn't true. Make a succinct argument, support your assertions.
        studentrob 10y ago
        > You said I was touting government propaganda. If by that you mean exposing it and its influence. Then yeah.. I hereby tout all government propaganda and always will do. Touting does not mean exposing. "Exposing" is used for facts. It is your opinion that propaganda is an effective means of helping China gain international influence.

Mike is a respected member of both HN and the Cocoa community. Are you implying that he's a shill?

by shifter 10y ago

Mike is a respected member of both HN and the Cocoa community. Are you implying that he's a shill?

okc 10y ago

No, I'm not implying that. I'm implying that I don't understand how his arguments flow - they seem self defeating. For the reasons outlined above. I don't mean it personally, and I don't really care if he is respected or not. I just wanna get to the bottom of why, how and what he is getting at. And from his writing style it seem I am led to doubt he doesn't really believe what he is implying. Of course, I might and probqly an wrong so would appreciate clarification. The argument of: its not just propaganda, its also a reflection of development - doesn't wash with me.

okc 10y ago

I still don't think so, but can I ask you a question. Do you think there are some strange posts on these threads, written with an underlying tinge of propaganda (not everyone). This morning I woke up to find my original post no further replied to, but down voted from 8 to 2. I also seem to be having a conversation with someone who registers a new name each time they post (I presume). And the whole thread is about controlling social media - particularly through controlling perception of public opinion. Honest question, what do you think? Irony, conspiracy, time zone differences.

studentrob 10y ago
> Do you think there are some strange posts on these threads, written with an underlying tinge of propaganda (not everyone). You mean like yourself here [1] where you are touting government propaganda? The thing about propaganda is, the more one-sided a conversation becomes, the less interesting it is. There's no single viewpoint that can pretend to take two opposing sides of an argument. Good internet comments are succinct, point out flaws in other comments' arguments, and are on the minds of other readers. If a comment thread doesn't make me think, I lose interest. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11744448 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11744448
- okc 10y ago
  Explain. Explain one country that I am in any way supporting the propaganda of. If its because I am drawing attention to Taiwan not being fully recognised, as per our earlier thread. Then that is an assumption based in the fact of it being a non-un member. But I'm drawing attention to the type of corruption that let's countries (such as China and the UK) bully Taiwan. Sound like a propaganda line? Explain which country and how? Please. Can't believe you are lecturing on succinct arguments and at the same time calling my post propaganda without any reason. Read your own post and apply it to yourself.
  - studentrob 10y ago
    > Explain one country that I am in any way supporting the propaganda of. You said propaganda is an effective means of helping China gain international influence: > Public opinion outside of China is very important for business and strategy. Present China as an improving progressive regime, smooth over its human rights problems, and china can gain more influence internationally. [1] I disagree 100%. It's not effective and it hurts China's relations. Relationships are built on trust. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11744448 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11744448
    - okc 10y ago
      Come on. You said I was touting government propaganda. If by that you mean exposing it and its influence. Then yeah.. I hereby tout all government propaganda and always will do. I wish international relations were built on trust. But that's a bollocks and idealised view. My example of the UN membership is quite fitting. Small countries with no interest in Taiwan have been directly bribed by china to vote against letting Taiwan join. Call that trust? Point out why and how this isn't true. Make a succinct argument, support your assertions.
      - studentrob 10y ago
        > You said I was touting government propaganda. If by that you mean exposing it and its influence. Then yeah.. I hereby tout all government propaganda and always will do. Touting does not mean exposing. "Exposing" is used for facts. It is your opinion that propaganda is an effective means of helping China gain international influence.