4 ms·

I lived in lower Manhattan for 20 years. I know the region well. Perhaps you would consider places like Forest Hills, Queens or Bushwick, Brooklyn or Staten Is

by nihonde 10y ago

I lived in lower Manhattan for 20 years. I know the region well. Perhaps you would consider places like Forest Hills, Queens or Bushwick, Brooklyn or Staten Island or Hoboken or Teaneck or Westchester to be the "most beautiful, safest, most walkable, best-educated (with good public schools), most politically-engaged, and community-oriented towns in the country". For me, none of those places are within even the top 200 "most beautiful, safest, most walkable, best-educated...etc." places that I've been to in America or elsewhere. Do I have high standards? Yes. My personal opinion is that the area around NYC sets a low standard and achieves against it, and that comments like yours perpetuate the fundamental issue, which is essentially a stubborn kind of underachievement.

legutierr 10y ago
I was thinking more Summit, Madison, Larchmont, Bronxville, Mamaroneck, Ramsey, Ho-ho-kus, Sleepy Hollow, Tarrytown, Nyack, Nanuet...and that's a pretty short list, and not including anywhere in Long Island or the 5 Boroughs. One thing that you will probably agree with, being as you are someone who lived for so long in lower Manhattan, is the fact that most people who live in lower Manhattan will frequently find reasons to avoid leaving the confines of Manhattan and Brooklyn whenever possible. Perhaps you don't know the region as well as you think you do?
- tacos 10y ago
  You cherry picked the one Metro North line that's not a total hellhole. Median Rent in Mamaroneck is $4700/month, Median house sale price is over a million. It's 27 miles from Grand Central and you will spend 2+ hours a day getting there and back minimum. Even Connecticut has gone nuts. Once you get past Greenwich it's a (literal) train wreck all the way to Boston. http://www.trulia.com/real_estate/Mamaroneck-New_York/ http://www.trulia.com/real_estate/Mamaroneck-New_York/
  - legutierr 10y ago
    I purposely named towns on four separate rail lines, and there are probably two or three dozen more communities with a similar profile in the region that are similarly well-connected by rail. Yes, Mamaroneck is one of the more expensive communities I named; for what it's worth, though, Mamaroneck is 36 minutes from Grand Central by train (which is one reason it is more expensive). Other places are much less expensive, although you may be on the train for an hour or so before you get to where you are going in the city.
    - tacos 10y ago
      44+ minutes at morning rush now. Buying a million dollar property then watching your commute times increase 10% every few years is another joy of living in the area.
- nihonde 10y ago
  OK, but, why do people avoid leaving the confines of Manhattan and Brooklyn? I had a car for many years in NYC, and I mostly used it to get as far away as possible. That liminal zone outside the city is beyond depressing to me. I've never been a huge fan of suburbs (even the quiet, tree-lined ones), but huge swathes of the areas around NYC are best described as semi-abandoned, litter-strewn, century-old, razor-wired-wrapped, pigeon-shit coated blight. And the means by which one passes through these areas are broken. The highways are perpetually "under construction", yet covered in potholes. The trains are crowded, dirty, late, filled with crazy people, on fire, etc. Half the cars are being driven by people who probably don't have valid licenses, and have the common courtesy of PCP addicts. Trashcans overflowing with rats scurrying around. Piles and piles of trash bags leaking toxic fluids into the gutters and sewers. And every ten blocks or so is an "am I going to die today if I walk near here?" housing project. (Probably you won't die, but don't use your iPhone!) I'm sorry, but it's a disgusting mess and we can and should do sooo much better. I'm not someone who wants the world to be a Connecticut country club——in fact, I would almost hate that more. I'm talking about a civilization where people carry around a reasonable amount of shame and humility and build atop the nice things that others have left behind instead of accruing sedimentary layers of ill will and misery on their own doorstep. (For the record, even Manhattan, and definitely Brooklyn don't meet my standards either. Tokyo. That's a far bigger city in a country with a failing economy, but is clean, pleasant, and orderly in every direction.)
  - dionidium 10y ago
    Dangerous idea: Tokyo is that way because it's full of Japanese people. New York will never be that way because it isn't.
  - ghaff 10y ago
    >Tokyo. That's a far bigger city in a country with a failing economy, but is clean, pleasant, and orderly in every direction. The country may have a failing economy but it's also a vastly different culture to a degree that makes it hard to compare. London is probably the fairer comparison. I'm not really going to defend Manhattan though. I lived there one summer--albeit in the 80s as a student when there was a lot worse things about it than today. But, much as I do like visiting from time to time, I'd never want to live there.
deleted 10y ago
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by nihonde 10y ago

legutierr 10y ago

I was thinking more Summit, Madison, Larchmont, Bronxville, Mamaroneck, Ramsey, Ho-ho-kus, Sleepy Hollow, Tarrytown, Nyack, Nanuet...and that's a pretty short list, and not including anywhere in Long Island or the 5 Boroughs. One thing that you will probably agree with, being as you are someone who lived for so long in lower Manhattan, is the fact that most people who live in lower Manhattan will frequently find reasons to avoid leaving the confines of Manhattan and Brooklyn whenever possible. Perhaps you don't know the region as well as you think you do?

tacos 10y ago
You cherry picked the one Metro North line that's not a total hellhole. Median Rent in Mamaroneck is $4700/month, Median house sale price is over a million. It's 27 miles from Grand Central and you will spend 2+ hours a day getting there and back minimum. Even Connecticut has gone nuts. Once you get past Greenwich it's a (literal) train wreck all the way to Boston. http://www.trulia.com/real_estate/Mamaroneck-New_York/ http://www.trulia.com/real_estate/Mamaroneck-New_York/
- legutierr 10y ago
  I purposely named towns on four separate rail lines, and there are probably two or three dozen more communities with a similar profile in the region that are similarly well-connected by rail. Yes, Mamaroneck is one of the more expensive communities I named; for what it's worth, though, Mamaroneck is 36 minutes from Grand Central by train (which is one reason it is more expensive). Other places are much less expensive, although you may be on the train for an hour or so before you get to where you are going in the city.
  - tacos 10y ago
    44+ minutes at morning rush now. Buying a million dollar property then watching your commute times increase 10% every few years is another joy of living in the area.
nihonde 10y ago
OK, but, why do people avoid leaving the confines of Manhattan and Brooklyn? I had a car for many years in NYC, and I mostly used it to get as far away as possible. That liminal zone outside the city is beyond depressing to me. I've never been a huge fan of suburbs (even the quiet, tree-lined ones), but huge swathes of the areas around NYC are best described as semi-abandoned, litter-strewn, century-old, razor-wired-wrapped, pigeon-shit coated blight. And the means by which one passes through these areas are broken. The highways are perpetually "under construction", yet covered in potholes. The trains are crowded, dirty, late, filled with crazy people, on fire, etc. Half the cars are being driven by people who probably don't have valid licenses, and have the common courtesy of PCP addicts. Trashcans overflowing with rats scurrying around. Piles and piles of trash bags leaking toxic fluids into the gutters and sewers. And every ten blocks or so is an "am I going to die today if I walk near here?" housing project. (Probably you won't die, but don't use your iPhone!) I'm sorry, but it's a disgusting mess and we can and should do sooo much better. I'm not someone who wants the world to be a Connecticut country club——in fact, I would almost hate that more. I'm talking about a civilization where people carry around a reasonable amount of shame and humility and build atop the nice things that others have left behind instead of accruing sedimentary layers of ill will and misery on their own doorstep. (For the record, even Manhattan, and definitely Brooklyn don't meet my standards either. Tokyo. That's a far bigger city in a country with a failing economy, but is clean, pleasant, and orderly in every direction.)
- dionidium 10y ago
  Dangerous idea: Tokyo is that way because it's full of Japanese people. New York will never be that way because it isn't.
- ghaff 10y ago
  >Tokyo. That's a far bigger city in a country with a failing economy, but is clean, pleasant, and orderly in every direction. The country may have a failing economy but it's also a vastly different culture to a degree that makes it hard to compare. London is probably the fairer comparison. I'm not really going to defend Manhattan though. I lived there one summer--albeit in the 80s as a student when there was a lot worse things about it than today. But, much as I do like visiting from time to time, I'd never want to live there.

deleted 10y ago

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