5 ms·

They've also all been converted, after the first and second Tenement House Acts were passed in the early 20th century, making old-style tenements illegal. In a

They've also all been converted, after the first and second Tenement House Acts were passed in the early 20th century, making old-style tenements illegal. In a true tenement, you'd easily have a flat with no windows and no bathroom. You'd share a toilet with several other flats and your shower would be in your kitchen, with no door to separate it from the rest of the kitchen. If there were a fire, you might not have any access to a fire escape other than the front door. I used to live in a converted tenement in Lower Manhattan. It was incredibly clear that the entire apartment building had been rearranged twice to comply with the new laws. (This is why dumbell style apartments exist). I certainly would never want to live in an actual tenement. There's a very good reason they're illegal now.

unethical_ban 10y ago
What you described sounds like a modern dorm room or hostel, except without window requirements.
- ghaff 10y ago
  Right. Because what you see in Jacob Riis' photos for example look just like a modern dorm room in the US. [1] /s [1] http://youthvoices.net/node/20103 http://youthvoices.net/node/20103
  - mattmanser 10y ago
    Link was down for me, assume he's talking about this photo (Five Cents a Spot): https://www.moma.org/learn/moma_learning/jacob-august-riis-lodgers-in-bayard-street-tenement-five-cents-a-spot-1889 https://www.moma.org/learn/moma_learning/jacob-august-riis-l...
    - ghaff 10y ago
      Works for me but, yes, that's one of his more famous photos.
  - unethical_ban 10y ago
    1) Not far from some dorms I've seen - but yes, most now have A/C, and all have a sink and a window. 2) Better than living under a bridge, no?
- acveilleux 10y ago
  Ah but a dorm room has a window requirement and indoor plumbing. Doesn't sound like much but it is. A New York tenement at its worst has windows on the front and back face only, which are the main room of the appartments since they're the only one to get any light. The building covers the maximum buildable surface of the lot. It is rather narrow and very long. The bedrooms are in the middle of the building with no windows. You don't need light. There's no bathrooms in the building, you use a latrine in the back of the lot. Most of them got renovated to at least have internal windows, a sink (and therefore plumbing) in the kitchen and toilets on every floor after the code was improved. Here's a sample floor plan that's representative of early tenements: https://www.nygeo.org/tenement.jpg https://www.nygeo.org/tenement.jpg Later you got the Dumbbell tenements with windows to the outside in every bed room and, often, an actual bathroom. They've often been renovated to be quite nice today but originally it was about minimizing cost and maximizing rent revenue extraction from the working poor.
  - trgn 10y ago
    Going of on a tangent here: My current apartment has similar a railroad layout from your picture. I absolutely love it. I keep the "parlor" area neat and clean (which is where front door is). When I have people over, they usually don't come further then that. Like the monarchs of old, the deeper I allow you in my residence, the more I favor you. From the parlor, a door leads to the kitchen. Most people don't have business there, so I can leave dishes in the sink and what not. And behind kitchen, a door leads into the holiest of holiest, the bedroom. You're a lucky devil if you made it all this way, nudge nudge. My apartment before this had a more contemporary layout, was even a little bigger, with open kitchen-living room, bedroom/bathroom organized around central hallway. It kind of stunk. Everything sort of was the same, it was difficult to compartmentalize, so when I ended up cleaning I ended up doing the entire thing. There was no progression, no differences in "formality", so the entire thing gave itself away the moment you walked in. It must be fiendishly hard to design commodious living spaces within a small square footage, but I've become a fan of those shotgun layouts, it works well IMO!
    - acveilleux 10y ago
PhantomGremlin 10y ago
You'd share a toilet with several other flats This was still quite common in the 1960's in the East Village. I wonder if those buildings have been renovated since, or if those conditions still exist today?
- chimeracoder 10y ago
  I know at least one person who still lived in an apartment like the that in Greenwich Village in 2012, but yes, the vast majority of those have since been renovated.

unethical_ban 10y ago

What you described sounds like a modern dorm room or hostel, except without window requirements.

ghaff 10y ago
Right. Because what you see in Jacob Riis' photos for example look just like a modern dorm room in the US. [1] /s [1] http://youthvoices.net/node/20103 http://youthvoices.net/node/20103
- mattmanser 10y ago
  Link was down for me, assume he's talking about this photo (Five Cents a Spot): https://www.moma.org/learn/moma_learning/jacob-august-riis-lodgers-in-bayard-street-tenement-five-cents-a-spot-1889 https://www.moma.org/learn/moma_learning/jacob-august-riis-l...
  - ghaff 10y ago
    Works for me but, yes, that's one of his more famous photos.
- unethical_ban 10y ago
  1) Not far from some dorms I've seen - but yes, most now have A/C, and all have a sink and a window. 2) Better than living under a bridge, no?
acveilleux 10y ago
Ah but a dorm room has a window requirement and indoor plumbing. Doesn't sound like much but it is. A New York tenement at its worst has windows on the front and back face only, which are the main room of the appartments since they're the only one to get any light. The building covers the maximum buildable surface of the lot. It is rather narrow and very long. The bedrooms are in the middle of the building with no windows. You don't need light. There's no bathrooms in the building, you use a latrine in the back of the lot. Most of them got renovated to at least have internal windows, a sink (and therefore plumbing) in the kitchen and toilets on every floor after the code was improved. Here's a sample floor plan that's representative of early tenements: https://www.nygeo.org/tenement.jpg https://www.nygeo.org/tenement.jpg Later you got the Dumbbell tenements with windows to the outside in every bed room and, often, an actual bathroom. They've often been renovated to be quite nice today but originally it was about minimizing cost and maximizing rent revenue extraction from the working poor.
- trgn 10y ago
  Going of on a tangent here: My current apartment has similar a railroad layout from your picture. I absolutely love it. I keep the "parlor" area neat and clean (which is where front door is). When I have people over, they usually don't come further then that. Like the monarchs of old, the deeper I allow you in my residence, the more I favor you. From the parlor, a door leads to the kitchen. Most people don't have business there, so I can leave dishes in the sink and what not. And behind kitchen, a door leads into the holiest of holiest, the bedroom. You're a lucky devil if you made it all this way, nudge nudge. My apartment before this had a more contemporary layout, was even a little bigger, with open kitchen-living room, bedroom/bathroom organized around central hallway. It kind of stunk. Everything sort of was the same, it was difficult to compartmentalize, so when I ended up cleaning I ended up doing the entire thing. There was no progression, no differences in "formality", so the entire thing gave itself away the moment you walked in. It must be fiendishly hard to design commodious living spaces within a small square footage, but I've become a fan of those shotgun layouts, it works well IMO!
  - acveilleux 10y ago

PhantomGremlin 10y ago

You'd share a toilet with several other flats This was still quite common in the 1960's in the East Village. I wonder if those buildings have been renovated since, or if those conditions still exist today?

chimeracoder 10y ago
I know at least one person who still lived in an apartment like the that in Greenwich Village in 2012, but yes, the vast majority of those have since been renovated.