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I'm a dev so I think I'll carry on using Bootstrap thanks. It may be a 'bloated framework' but it works and I've spent enough time on CSS already.

thirdsun 10y ago
> and I've spent enough time on CSS already I hope that time wasn't spent customizing Bootstrap to your liking and requirements - you could have worked on your very own and much more lightweight set of common CSS rules instead. I'm sorry but how anyone, who is at least moderately experienced in web design, could use massive CSS frameworks like Bootstrap or Foundation for anything but quick previews and basic demo apps is beyond me.
- mkay581 10y ago
  Totallay.
- ianpurton 10y ago
  It's not massive.
pedalpete 10y ago
Make friends with flexbox and a pre-processor and I think you'll see how you can quickly do much better than bootstrap.
welanes 10y ago
8 months ago, building my first web app, I grabbed bootstrap and got to coding. For the same reasons as you. Cleaning up my code last week I decided to remove it from my source folder to see what would happen. Gulp did its thing, I hit refresh and my app looked exactly the same. The CSS I added on top of Bootstrap removed the need for 160ish kb of styling rules and gave me full control of the look of my app. No more "col-sm-6 col-md-5 col-md-offset-2 col-lg-6 col-lg-offset-0" nonsense and no more wrestling with the framework. A day learning CSS basics, Flexbox, Psuedo-elements and best practice brings big returns. And more importantly, gives you design control over whatever you're building which makes prototyping super easy.
- Roboprog 10y ago
  Thank you. Hearing I'm not the only one who feels that way makes me feel better about not including Bootstrap in the app rewrite we are doing at work (taking a decade old, 500K+ LOC, Struts app into the rich web client / Angular 1 era). In general, I have been happy with making a little style file that grew up to 300 (I think) lines or so over that last almost a year. This approach (not using a mystery CSS file) also paid off when we had to make a custom page with alternate styling for embedding within another app. Now if only CSS selectors were as full featured as XPath :-)
toomanythings2 10y ago
I am always suspicious when anyone tells me their reason for using something is cause "it works" and they don't have to mess with it anymore. This almost always translates into "I don't know why it works and I don't care".
- ianpurton 10y ago
  I do know why it works. Because the bootstrap team spend 100s of man hours getting it to work.

thirdsun 10y ago

> and I've spent enough time on CSS already I hope that time wasn't spent customizing Bootstrap to your liking and requirements - you could have worked on your very own and much more lightweight set of common CSS rules instead. I'm sorry but how anyone, who is at least moderately experienced in web design, could use massive CSS frameworks like Bootstrap or Foundation for anything but quick previews and basic demo apps is beyond me.

mkay581 10y ago
Totallay.
ianpurton 10y ago
It's not massive.

pedalpete 10y ago

Make friends with flexbox and a pre-processor and I think you'll see how you can quickly do much better than bootstrap.

welanes 10y ago

8 months ago, building my first web app, I grabbed bootstrap and got to coding. For the same reasons as you. Cleaning up my code last week I decided to remove it from my source folder to see what would happen. Gulp did its thing, I hit refresh and my app looked exactly the same. The CSS I added on top of Bootstrap removed the need for 160ish kb of styling rules and gave me full control of the look of my app. No more "col-sm-6 col-md-5 col-md-offset-2 col-lg-6 col-lg-offset-0" nonsense and no more wrestling with the framework. A day learning CSS basics, Flexbox, Psuedo-elements and best practice brings big returns. And more importantly, gives you design control over whatever you're building which makes prototyping super easy.

Roboprog 10y ago
Thank you. Hearing I'm not the only one who feels that way makes me feel better about not including Bootstrap in the app rewrite we are doing at work (taking a decade old, 500K+ LOC, Struts app into the rich web client / Angular 1 era). In general, I have been happy with making a little style file that grew up to 300 (I think) lines or so over that last almost a year. This approach (not using a mystery CSS file) also paid off when we had to make a custom page with alternate styling for embedding within another app. Now if only CSS selectors were as full featured as XPath :-)

toomanythings2 10y ago

I am always suspicious when anyone tells me their reason for using something is cause "it works" and they don't have to mess with it anymore. This almost always translates into "I don't know why it works and I don't care".

ianpurton 10y ago
I do know why it works. Because the bootstrap team spend 100s of man hours getting it to work.