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Just a nitpick but atheism is not a faith, it's the absence of faith.
by sysk 10y ago
Just a nitpick but atheism is not a faith, it's the absence of faith.
- enord 10y agoDo you identify as atheist? Is the distinction important to you? Grouping different religious views together with atheism under the same category is useful when discussing people and their beliefs. Arguing the semantics of wether Atheism is a "belief" or "faith" (or some nicer, more certain-sounding term) is in my experience unfruitful and most often besides the point. /nitpick
- mcbits 10y agoI find there's a pretty wide gulf between our day-to-day beliefs vs. what we claim to believe with all the pedantics and caveats added when our beliefs come under scrutiny (especially by a critic).
- sysk 10y agoI didn't mean to discuss, just to correct OP in case he was genuinely misinformed.
- tomp 10y agoAtheism is faith just like any other; belief that no god exists is just as substantiated (i.e. not at all) and provable (i.e. not at all) as the belief that particular god(s) exist.
- tonyedgecombe 10y agoAtheism doesn't have any doctrines or the spiritual connection of a religion.
- tomp 10y agoI didn't say it does. But it requires faith, i.e. belief into something that is fundamentally unprovable.
- wastedhours 10y agoStill depending on definitions, but faith is the belief in something. Not accepting that there's anything to have belief in is something separate, and grouping a-theism with different types of theism isn't a usually accepted argument. I appreciate the angle you're taking, but the semantics of it are important.
- collyw 10y agoMany of them believe in a big bang, that came from nothing where the laws of physics don't apply, and created the universe...... (Sounds almost as crazy as religion to me).
- wastedhours 10y ago"Many" perhaps, but Atheism != scientific belief.
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- rcxdude 10y agoDepends on your precise definition. Most atheists consider atheism the lack of belief in a god, as opposed to the belief that there is no god. The distinction is important.
- collyw 10y agoMost people I know who claim to be atheists seem to believe there is not god, despite not being able to prove it. Agnostics seem to be the most honest ones....
- shopkins 10y agoThat's a very theistic way to frame atheism. Theism requires active belief in prescribed dogma, whereas atheism can include both rejection of said dogma or simply not subscribing to religious ideas. For example, many people are vegetarian for one subjective reason or another. Just because I'm not vegetarian doesn't mean I believe being vegetarian is wrong or isn't a thing -- it just means I like eating meat and don't have the same reasons as vegetarians to subscribe to vegetarianism. And I don't think about vegetarianism, like how some atheists don't think about god; this stands in contrast with those who subscribe to religion, which requires active belief / prayer / practice / absorption of certain ideals into your identity.
- jabl 10y agoThat's interesting. I know plenty of people who label themselves as atheists, but AFAICT not a single one of them take the position of "belief in god not existing".
- eivarv 10y agoWhat sysk is saying that atheism is not the belief that no god exists, but rather the lack of a belief in a god. It's also not as if any two unsubstantiated and unprovable positions are just as likely to be true; see Russell's teapot[1]. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot
- sysk 10y agoYes, that's what I meant.
- tomp 10y agoOk, then we're using two different definitions. I use agnostic for the one you describe as "atheist".
- eivarv 10y agoAgnosticism is the stance that what we are talking about is unknowable, as opposed to gnosticism. I think what you refer to as atheism seems closer to antitheism than anything else. The difference here is the same as the difference between "asocial" and "antisocial".
- tomp 10y agoSo is there any difference between agnosticism and atheism (as you use it)?
- eivarv 10y agoYes, but they're not different points on a scale that goes from religious to irreligious, if that is what you mean. One can be an agnostic christian, for instance, in which case one would believe that it is unknown or unknowable whether the divine or supernatural exists (and believe in it still). What I'm relating to the difference between "asocial" and "antisocial" is the difference between "atheist" and "antitheist".
- axelfreeman 10y agoIf you don't care if a god exist or not and never thought about it then its not a faith. ;-)
- kecks 10y agoAn atheist doesn't believe in the existence of god(s); a theist is the opposite and believes in the existence of god(s). The difference lies in lack of faith v. faith. An agnostic believes it's not possible to be sure whether one or more gods exist. Combinations are possibly; an agnostic theist believes in the existence of gods, but also thinks it's impossible to be sure. There are also apathetic agnostics; they don't know nor care whether one or more gods exist. This usually seems to go with atheism. I suppose there should also be a word like nontheists; those who have faith in the non-existence of gods.
- tremon 10y agoAn atheist doesn't believe in the existence of god(s) Rather, an atheist believes in the non-existence of gods. We don't need a word like non-theist because we already have a word for it.
- goldbrick 10y agoI have never known a self-proclaimed atheist to actually say as much. This is purely a line toted about by those who wish to paint "atheists" in a certain light ("they're just as irrational as we!").
- tremon 10y agoThen again, do you know many Christians who explicitly signal their beliefs like that? I think they're much more likely to say "Jesus is the son of God" than "I believe Jesus is the son of God". It's rather uncommon for any follower of faith to preface their beliefs with "I believe". If they preface them at all, they're much more likely to use "I know", or "$authority says".
- dllthomas 10y ago> Then again, do you know many Christians who explicitly signal their beliefs like that? All of them that recite the Nicene Creed or some derivative...
- collyw 10y agoDisagree. Atheists believe there is no god (without any conclusive evidence).
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- goldbrick 10y agoMost people who call themselves atheists disagree with you. You should respect others more.
- darkarmani 10y agoWhat is the name for people that believe there is no: santa clause, easter bunny, flying spaghetti monster, ... (without any conclusive proof)?
- tomhoward 10y agoA big high-five to everyone in this subthread who decided to engage in a religious debate in response to this, of all articles!