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I don't think it's so much about identity as it is about (in)security. Regarding politics, I completely follow his argument: I don't identify with any party an
by athenot 10y ago
I don't think it's so much about identity as it is about (in)security.
Regarding politics, I completely follow his argument: I don't identify with any party and like to think I'm evaluating each policy on its on merits and according to my personal beliefs. Which leads me to the other one.
I happen to be Catholic and strongly believe in the mental and societal framework put forth by that theology. However, I'm more than happy to discuss objectively with fellows of other faiths (including atheism) and will happily point out the common threads in seemingly opposite belief systems. Yet if others make arguments that I'm not in position to counter, I'm happy to let it go. My identity is deeply rooted as a Catholic, yet my security is not in being right.
There is a temptation on my part to put forth the argument that some religions foster greater amounts of insecurity, but I don't think that is fair to say. Pretty much every belief system has a version of the Golden Rule.
To take Paul Graham's argument just a little further, I would say that religion and politics can be misused as convenient mental shortcuts behind which to hide one's insecurities.
- sysk 10y agoJust a nitpick but atheism is not a faith, it's the absence of faith.
- enord 10y agoDo you identify as atheist? Is the distinction important to you? Grouping different religious views together with atheism under the same category is useful when discussing people and their beliefs. Arguing the semantics of wether Atheism is a "belief" or "faith" (or some nicer, more certain-sounding term) is in my experience unfruitful and most often besides the point. /nitpick
- mcbits 10y agoI find there's a pretty wide gulf between our day-to-day beliefs vs. what we claim to believe with all the pedantics and caveats added when our beliefs come under scrutiny (especially by a critic).
- sysk 10y agoI didn't mean to discuss, just to correct OP in case he was genuinely misinformed.
- tomp 10y agoAtheism is faith just like any other; belief that no god exists is just as substantiated (i.e. not at all) and provable (i.e. not at all) as the belief that particular god(s) exist.
- tonyedgecombe 10y agoAtheism doesn't have any doctrines or the spiritual connection of a religion.
- tomp 10y agoI didn't say it does. But it requires faith, i.e. belief into something that is fundamentally unprovable.
- wastedhours 10y agoStill depending on definitions, but faith is the belief in something. Not accepting that there's anything to have belief in is something separate, and grouping a-theism with different types of theism isn't a usually accepted argument. I appreciate the angle you're taking, but the semantics of it are important.
- collyw 10y agoMany of them believe in a big bang, that came from nothing where the laws of physics don't apply, and created the universe...... (Sounds almost as crazy as religion to me).
- wastedhours 10y ago"Many" perhaps, but Atheism != scientific belief.
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- axelfreeman 10y agoIf you don't care if a god exist or not and never thought about it then its not a faith. ;-)
- kecks 10y agoAn atheist doesn't believe in the existence of god(s); a theist is the opposite and believes in the existence of god(s). The difference lies in lack of faith v. faith. An agnostic believes it's not possible to be sure whether one or more gods exist. Combinations are possibly; an agnostic theist believes in the existence of gods, but also thinks it's impossible to be sure. There are also apathetic agnostics; they don't know nor care whether one or more gods exist. This usually seems to go with atheism. I suppose there should also be a word like nontheists; those who have faith in the non-existence of gods.
- tremon 10y agoAn atheist doesn't believe in the existence of god(s) Rather, an atheist believes in the non-existence of gods. We don't need a word like non-theist because we already have a word for it.
- goldbrick 10y agoI have never known a self-proclaimed atheist to actually say as much. This is purely a line toted about by those who wish to paint "atheists" in a certain light ("they're just as irrational as we!").
- tremon 10y agoThen again, do you know many Christians who explicitly signal their beliefs like that? I think they're much more likely to say "Jesus is the son of God" than "I believe Jesus is the son of God". It's rather uncommon for any follower of faith to preface their beliefs with "I believe". If they preface them at all, they're much more likely to use "I know", or "$authority says".
- dllthomas 10y ago> Then again, do you know many Christians who explicitly signal their beliefs like that? All of them that recite the Nicene Creed or some derivative...
- collyw 10y agoDisagree. Atheists believe there is no god (without any conclusive evidence).
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- goldbrick 10y agoMost people who call themselves atheists disagree with you. You should respect others more.
- darkarmani 10y agoWhat is the name for people that believe there is no: santa clause, easter bunny, flying spaghetti monster, ... (without any conclusive proof)?
- tomhoward 10y agoA big high-five to everyone in this subthread who decided to engage in a religious debate in response to this, of all articles!