5 ms·

I don't have access to the actual paper, but my first thought on this is to wonder if they factored in the idea that people who specifically exercise are obviou

by azdle 10y ago

I don't have access to the actual paper, but my first thought on this is to wonder if they factored in the idea that people who specifically exercise are obviously interested in being healthy and may be doing other things that are "healthy" that would affect whether they get cancer or not. I wonder if it'd be possible to get data on people who are active, but not for the reason of being healthy, things like working construction, and compare that to see if it's the activity itself or just the mentality that comes from wanting to be healthy.

mrfusion 10y ago
Here's the problem with your idea though http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=17792517 http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1779251... It suggests people get more benefits from exercise when they expect it. I'm curious to hear your thoughts.
- ludamad 10y ago
  It's an interesting idea, but it would really need to be explored further. There's many things I see as variables that could cause the effect with the house maids, like an overly broad definition of house maids, or wrong assumptions about the type of exercise they get.
- azdle 10y ago
  That's a very interesting experiment, however, at least from how it's described in that article, I don't think it's anywhere rigiorus enough to draw any conclusions from. > One possible explanation is that the process of learning about the amount of exercise they were already getting somehow changed the maids' behavior. But Langer says that her team surveyed both the women and their managers and found no indication that the maids had altered their routines in any way. She believes that the change can be explained only by the change in the women's mindset. I think that they're too quick to dismiss a change in behavior. Simply asking someone (and their managers‽) if they did anything different this month than they did last month isn't a very reliable way to figure out if there were any subtle changes in behavior. I don't know if they were expecting massive conscious changes, but I would be shocked if suddenly knowing that their daily routine is good for them didn't change some of the subconscious decisions they were making. Even just simple things like taking the stairs 10% more than they did before or how they decide when and how much to eat based on a certain level of hunger. You're still going to think "I took the stairs sometimes, but took the elevator when I needed it." or "I ate the same foods that I did before." but maybe you were taking smaller portions. Basically what I'm trying to say is that it's very hard to draw hard quantitative conclusions from vague qualitative assessments.
wehadfun 10y ago
I think the only problem is the careers that have the most physical activity seem to be the most dangerous or prone to drug use. Firemen, military, police, construction have high death rates. Atheletes have drug problems.
- sanoli 10y ago
  Not all physically active careers are dangerous. Off the top of my head I can think of mail carrier, garbage collector, movers.
jghn 10y ago
What about people who exercise because they want to look ripped? I've known all sorts of people who exercise but live otherwise unhealthy lifestyles. They're not doing it for their health, but for appearance.
nl 10y ago
From the article: Encouragingly, the associations between exercise and reduced cancer risks held true even when the researchers factored in body mass. People who were overweight or obese but exercised had a much lower risk of developing most cancers than overweight people who did not move much.
- bjterry 10y ago
  This is directly related to a comment I posted on another article two days ago[0]. This may seem more surprising than it actually is, because by "overweight" and "obese" they are referring to BMI categories, according to the abstract. The overweight BMI category contains people who range from healthy, lean and muscular (think muscular gym goer) to people who have little muscle mass and high body fat percentage (think large beer belly). The fact that you can decrease cancer risk by gaining muscle (usually from increased exercise, precisely the thing being studied) and losing fat while maintaining the same physical mass and thus the same BMI, is not shocking. Once you control for body fat, having additional muscle mass (thus higher BMI) probably decreases all-cause mortality.[1] Unfortunately, I don't think this has much bearing on azdle's questions, since people can be fit for many reasons, either by intent or by necessity. 0: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11714249 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11714249 1: http://annals.org/article.aspx?articleid=2499472 http://annals.org/article.aspx?articleid=2499472

by azdle 10y ago

mrfusion 10y ago

Here's the problem with your idea though http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=17792517 http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1779251... It suggests people get more benefits from exercise when they expect it. I'm curious to hear your thoughts.

ludamad 10y ago
It's an interesting idea, but it would really need to be explored further. There's many things I see as variables that could cause the effect with the house maids, like an overly broad definition of house maids, or wrong assumptions about the type of exercise they get.
azdle 10y ago
That's a very interesting experiment, however, at least from how it's described in that article, I don't think it's anywhere rigiorus enough to draw any conclusions from. > One possible explanation is that the process of learning about the amount of exercise they were already getting somehow changed the maids' behavior. But Langer says that her team surveyed both the women and their managers and found no indication that the maids had altered their routines in any way. She believes that the change can be explained only by the change in the women's mindset. I think that they're too quick to dismiss a change in behavior. Simply asking someone (and their managers‽) if they did anything different this month than they did last month isn't a very reliable way to figure out if there were any subtle changes in behavior. I don't know if they were expecting massive conscious changes, but I would be shocked if suddenly knowing that their daily routine is good for them didn't change some of the subconscious decisions they were making. Even just simple things like taking the stairs 10% more than they did before or how they decide when and how much to eat based on a certain level of hunger. You're still going to think "I took the stairs sometimes, but took the elevator when I needed it." or "I ate the same foods that I did before." but maybe you were taking smaller portions. Basically what I'm trying to say is that it's very hard to draw hard quantitative conclusions from vague qualitative assessments.

wehadfun 10y ago

I think the only problem is the careers that have the most physical activity seem to be the most dangerous or prone to drug use. Firemen, military, police, construction have high death rates. Atheletes have drug problems.

sanoli 10y ago
Not all physically active careers are dangerous. Off the top of my head I can think of mail carrier, garbage collector, movers.

jghn 10y ago

What about people who exercise because they want to look ripped? I've known all sorts of people who exercise but live otherwise unhealthy lifestyles. They're not doing it for their health, but for appearance.

nl 10y ago

From the article: Encouragingly, the associations between exercise and reduced cancer risks held true even when the researchers factored in body mass. People who were overweight or obese but exercised had a much lower risk of developing most cancers than overweight people who did not move much.

bjterry 10y ago
This is directly related to a comment I posted on another article two days ago[0]. This may seem more surprising than it actually is, because by "overweight" and "obese" they are referring to BMI categories, according to the abstract. The overweight BMI category contains people who range from healthy, lean and muscular (think muscular gym goer) to people who have little muscle mass and high body fat percentage (think large beer belly). The fact that you can decrease cancer risk by gaining muscle (usually from increased exercise, precisely the thing being studied) and losing fat while maintaining the same physical mass and thus the same BMI, is not shocking. Once you control for body fat, having additional muscle mass (thus higher BMI) probably decreases all-cause mortality.[1] Unfortunately, I don't think this has much bearing on azdle's questions, since people can be fit for many reasons, either by intent or by necessity. 0: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11714249 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11714249 1: http://annals.org/article.aspx?articleid=2499472 http://annals.org/article.aspx?articleid=2499472