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> Hey, I can code and think abstractly. Give me a chance? That's more or less all most CS graduates can say though. I personally don't think anyone is qualifie

> Hey, I can code and think abstractly. Give me a chance? That's more or less all most CS graduates can say though. I personally don't think anyone is qualified to be a professional developer until they've been programming for several years (especially coding in an unstructured way). I don't want to be combative, but what made you think you needed a bootcamp? I learned to program long before I went to college and was hired for programming projects long before I graduated.

SilasX 10y ago
That's the point -- I didn't. I just needed it to convince someone to give me a chance. Employers would assume someone still in college for CS can program, and so look there. They don't automatically make that assumption for some rando with a different degree. To be sure, there were also probably some job-searching techniques that would have worked, but they're also hard to learn from reading pointers online if you don't automatically have the skill.
- morgante 10y ago
  Did you actually try to interview before the bootcamp though? (Ideally after building a few portfolio projects.) I ask because I had no trouble getting jobs and freelance work without a degree or bootcamp. In fact, a bootcamp is usually a strong negative signal for me. I'd much rather hire a self-taught developer than a bootcamper.
  - busterarm 10y ago
    I can say with some conviction that I just did not have the self-confidence to be able to do this and pull it off in an interview without going through the bootcamp and (more importantly) meeting several employed junior developers who were significantly behind me in skillset and professional development. I was completely self-taught and had 25 years of programming-as-a-hobby experience behind me going in. My problem was basically a lack of network and real understanding of my competition in the field and the bootcamp solved that. I could have saved a ton of money had I quit my bootcamp as soon as I realized this, but I'm still okay with how things turned out.
  - eonw 10y ago
    that works both ways; you hire self taught because you are self taught, just like CS grads tend to prefer hiring other CS grads. me, i have no preference when i interview a candidate... can you code? and can you solve complex problems? other then that i dont care about how you got your skills.
    - morgante 10y ago
      > you hire self taught because you are self taught, just like CS grads tend to prefer hiring other CS grads. I like and hire plenty of CS grads as well. I also have a CS degree. It's just bootcamp grads that I steer clear of.
      - gohrt 10y ago
        You seem arbitrarily biased against something you think is too "hipster".
- busterarm 10y ago
  This was my experience exactly. Aside from helping me pick up a few concepts more quickly than I would have otherwise, I did it purely to get my foot in the door for interviews. It also was a good excuse to just focus on my portfolio for several weeks whereas if I had held a full-time job during this time, it would have easily taken me 4x as long. It's a super expensive and wasteful way to do this, but I was optimizing for my time.
- gaius 10y ago
  In my experience any numerate degree is as good as CS for securing an interview. Mech Eng grad myself.
lolptdr 10y ago
I worked in chemical engineering roles for 5 years before deciding to attend a bootcamp. It seems like a refresher/shortcut to get into the webdev or programming industry, so a bit myopic, but it at least gives the added advantage of reducing the amount of time traditional programmers enter and gain traction in software development. Sometimes we only know that we love programming when we hate everything else, at least in my case.
TeMPOraL 10y ago
I think structured learning is useful for many - the sad part of being an adult is that for most people, their lives become driven by responsibilities instead by curiosity. Sure, you may want to learn programming (and maybe you even have a good economic reason for that), but there are always "more important" things that need to be done right frakin now. Some people are good at self-organizing and can cut out time for learning, but for many, having an external entity create and enforce a structure for learning is a good way to hack one's problems with prioritizing stuff.
mdholloway 10y ago
Bear in mind that the tech job market is a lot different than much of the U.S. economy right now. There are fields where experienced candidates with strong resumes can go job hunting and hear crickets. To go from that to not really needing any formal credential is a big mental leap.

SilasX 10y ago

That's the point -- I didn't. I just needed it to convince someone to give me a chance. Employers would assume someone still in college for CS can program, and so look there. They don't automatically make that assumption for some rando with a different degree. To be sure, there were also probably some job-searching techniques that would have worked, but they're also hard to learn from reading pointers online if you don't automatically have the skill.

morgante 10y ago
Did you actually try to interview before the bootcamp though? (Ideally after building a few portfolio projects.) I ask because I had no trouble getting jobs and freelance work without a degree or bootcamp. In fact, a bootcamp is usually a strong negative signal for me. I'd much rather hire a self-taught developer than a bootcamper.
- busterarm 10y ago
  I can say with some conviction that I just did not have the self-confidence to be able to do this and pull it off in an interview without going through the bootcamp and (more importantly) meeting several employed junior developers who were significantly behind me in skillset and professional development. I was completely self-taught and had 25 years of programming-as-a-hobby experience behind me going in. My problem was basically a lack of network and real understanding of my competition in the field and the bootcamp solved that. I could have saved a ton of money had I quit my bootcamp as soon as I realized this, but I'm still okay with how things turned out.
- eonw 10y ago
  that works both ways; you hire self taught because you are self taught, just like CS grads tend to prefer hiring other CS grads. me, i have no preference when i interview a candidate... can you code? and can you solve complex problems? other then that i dont care about how you got your skills.
  - morgante 10y ago
    > you hire self taught because you are self taught, just like CS grads tend to prefer hiring other CS grads. I like and hire plenty of CS grads as well. I also have a CS degree. It's just bootcamp grads that I steer clear of.
    - gohrt 10y ago
      You seem arbitrarily biased against something you think is too "hipster".
busterarm 10y ago
This was my experience exactly. Aside from helping me pick up a few concepts more quickly than I would have otherwise, I did it purely to get my foot in the door for interviews. It also was a good excuse to just focus on my portfolio for several weeks whereas if I had held a full-time job during this time, it would have easily taken me 4x as long. It's a super expensive and wasteful way to do this, but I was optimizing for my time.
gaius 10y ago
In my experience any numerate degree is as good as CS for securing an interview. Mech Eng grad myself.

lolptdr 10y ago

I worked in chemical engineering roles for 5 years before deciding to attend a bootcamp. It seems like a refresher/shortcut to get into the webdev or programming industry, so a bit myopic, but it at least gives the added advantage of reducing the amount of time traditional programmers enter and gain traction in software development. Sometimes we only know that we love programming when we hate everything else, at least in my case.

TeMPOraL 10y ago

I think structured learning is useful for many - the sad part of being an adult is that for most people, their lives become driven by responsibilities instead by curiosity. Sure, you may want to learn programming (and maybe you even have a good economic reason for that), but there are always "more important" things that need to be done right frakin now. Some people are good at self-organizing and can cut out time for learning, but for many, having an external entity create and enforce a structure for learning is a good way to hack one's problems with prioritizing stuff.

mdholloway 10y ago

Bear in mind that the tech job market is a lot different than much of the U.S. economy right now. There are fields where experienced candidates with strong resumes can go job hunting and hear crickets. To go from that to not really needing any formal credential is a big mental leap.