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> It seems to me the complete lack of algorithms is a land mine for any project. If you hire someone and release them into the wild of your codebase, that's a

> It seems to me the complete lack of algorithms is a land mine for any project. If you hire someone and release them into the wild of your codebase, that's a failure on your part not theirs. New hires are an investment, they shouldn't be treated as an immediate need-based solution. My experience in two fields has shown me that new hires are a drain on resources for a fairly significant time period, regardless of their background. If you're not doing everything in your power to educate your new hires and get them up to speed, THAT'S your landmine. It's your job to get them to learn the fundamentals if they don't have it.

crazypyro 10y ago
Eh, I disagree with the generalization that all new hires are a drain for a significant time period. In my experience, the rate at which they come up to speed is extremely varied.
- kmonsen 10y ago
  Yeah, in my experience we have had interns come in and be amazing right away. New grads can sometimes contribute pretty soon as well.
kmonsen 10y ago
I don't know, when I was a new grad I started on the codebase more or less right away. Didn't even have code reviews back then. If you have to train them, then it seems the coding part should be cheaper then the algo part.
- lloyd-christmas 10y ago
  > when I was a new grad I started on the codebase more or less right away I did as well, but... > Didn't even have code reviews back then. Not so much this one. > If you have to train them, then it seems the coding part should be cheaper then the algo part. I do actually agree. But there tends to be other aspects of the job outside of just code and algorithms. Prior work experience is a shining star compared to a 22 year old in any field. I see my coworkers more than my family. Someone that has a full understanding of everything that goes along with that has a head start across the board. Someone changing careers in their late 20's also tends to put a hell of a lot more into improving themselves than just the basic progress-of-life learning. I just think it evens out as long as you're consciously hiring people for the right role.
  - kmonsen 10y ago
    I don't know, we pay people to do a job. Sure some coworkers become friends, but most don't. As long as people are somewhat easy to get along with I don't think we should focus too much on other stuff.
    - lloyd-christmas 10y ago
      I wasn't implying that they should become friends. I meant that the working world doesn't tolerate the "I'm definitely right" mentality that comes with God's greatest gift, the 22 year old college grad. I'm joking about that last part, but there is a certain tact that only comes through time. A 25 year old is much more willing to say "I'm wrong, and I have no idea what I'm doing" than a 22 year old. This alone is a huge productivity boost. Both technical skills and soft skills can be learned, and I'd argue both are equally challenging.
      - kmonsen 10y ago
        I think you are right and it is much more pleasant to work in a team with people who doesn't have to be right all the time. At least I think so :-)

crazypyro 10y ago

Eh, I disagree with the generalization that all new hires are a drain for a significant time period. In my experience, the rate at which they come up to speed is extremely varied.

kmonsen 10y ago
Yeah, in my experience we have had interns come in and be amazing right away. New grads can sometimes contribute pretty soon as well.

kmonsen 10y ago

I don't know, when I was a new grad I started on the codebase more or less right away. Didn't even have code reviews back then. If you have to train them, then it seems the coding part should be cheaper then the algo part.

lloyd-christmas 10y ago
> when I was a new grad I started on the codebase more or less right away I did as well, but... > Didn't even have code reviews back then. Not so much this one. > If you have to train them, then it seems the coding part should be cheaper then the algo part. I do actually agree. But there tends to be other aspects of the job outside of just code and algorithms. Prior work experience is a shining star compared to a 22 year old in any field. I see my coworkers more than my family. Someone that has a full understanding of everything that goes along with that has a head start across the board. Someone changing careers in their late 20's also tends to put a hell of a lot more into improving themselves than just the basic progress-of-life learning. I just think it evens out as long as you're consciously hiring people for the right role.
- kmonsen 10y ago
  I don't know, we pay people to do a job. Sure some coworkers become friends, but most don't. As long as people are somewhat easy to get along with I don't think we should focus too much on other stuff.
  - lloyd-christmas 10y ago
    I wasn't implying that they should become friends. I meant that the working world doesn't tolerate the "I'm definitely right" mentality that comes with God's greatest gift, the 22 year old college grad. I'm joking about that last part, but there is a certain tact that only comes through time. A 25 year old is much more willing to say "I'm wrong, and I have no idea what I'm doing" than a 22 year old. This alone is a huge productivity boost. Both technical skills and soft skills can be learned, and I'd argue both are equally challenging.
    - kmonsen 10y ago
      I think you are right and it is much more pleasant to work in a team with people who doesn't have to be right all the time. At least I think so :-)