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If somebody disagrees I would like to know their stance on it and their argument against my view. Being downvoted certainly says people don't approve of the com

If somebody disagrees I would like to know their stance on it and their argument against my view. Being downvoted certainly says people don't approve of the comment but I don't see how it's polarizing or why it's wrong to make polarizing comments if there is a modicum of truth in it. I'll chalk it up to my Asperger's syndrome.

potatolicious 17y ago
Saying something so obviously controversial and polarizing demands more backup than the mere statement itself. You know your opinion is going to be unpopular, so the onus is upon you to expand upon that idea in your original post, otherwise it looks like you're just trolling. In response to your later justification, though, most western societies have been patriarchal, so the fact that we've been very successful at fighting and killing each other is not an indication that women somehow would not if given the chance. Your argument breaks down to this: since men are so bad at keeping the peace, women must therefore be better at it.
- greenlblue 17y ago
  In response to your later justification, though, most western societies have been patriarchal, so the fact that we've been very successful at fighting and killing each other is not an indication that women somehow would not if given the chance. But that's just it. The entire time men have been behaving badly women haven't even shown the slightest interest in participating so that's already evidence enough for me to make some conclusions about which is the more docile and empathetic gender.
  - lionhearted 17y ago
    > The entire time men have been behaving badly women haven't even shown the slightest interest in participating so that's already evidence enough for me to make some conclusions about which is the more docile and empathetic gender. While we're broadly generalizing, does the fact that men have accounted for 95%+ of all inventions, scientific breakthroughs, philosophy, and governance in history mean men are more proactive and hard working to go alongside women being more docile and empathetic? And does this lend itself easily to a judgment that a particular gender is better?
    - greenlblue 17y ago
      Obviously not. The societal pressures have been different but the thing about people is that it's hard to distinguish between what's actually innate and what's culturally enforced. So given the chance women would be just as proactive and inventive, heck we are already seeing that, but they wouldn't be as aggressive.
  - potatolicious 17y ago
    Slightest interest in participating? You realize that in most western, patriarchal societies women were not allowed to participate? Not to mention, many Native American cultures were matriarchal, and had absolutely no compunction about slaughtering each other there, either. I find it somewhat ironic that your justification for saying that women are better than men is that they are more docile and empathetic - the very same reasons that were trotted about to try and deny women the vote (i.e., too docile and easily led by the nose politically, too emotional to vote rationally, etc). It's hard to consider you pro-female when you seem to riding the same train of thought as anti-female folk. I do mean this in the most sincere, respectful way possible: have you considered taking a course in anthropology at your local university? I studied anthropology in a limited way during my time college, it was very eye-opening, and IMHO your viewpoint wouldn't stand up to a simple gut check against even introductory undergrad-level anthro. I know this may sound like I'm bashing you, but I'm really not trying to - IMHO you seem like you have a lot of misconceptions about culture and history which can be rectified by formal education on this subject.
    - greenlblue 17y ago
      You throw around the word patriarchial as if you know what it means. It is a very loaded word and you should define it so I know exactly what you mean. Women have been allowed to participate but not in the way men have been allowed to participate and wanted to participate. I don't know enough about native american culture to comment but I know in jewish culture the family name passes through the female line and men are still the ones committing most of the crimes and fighting most of the wars. I didn't use docile in a negative way. I meant they are less likely to use aggression as a means of resolving conflict. There is nothing anti-female in my stance. Thanks for the anthropology tip but now you are contradicting yourself. Most of formal education is simply a reflection of the attitudes and mores of the current times especially when it comes to classes like anthropology, sociology, psychology, etc. Most people that are technically trained, math, physics, cs, etc. are quite blind to this aspect of education. What do you think they taught in anthropology, sociology, psychology classes when women had very few rights, that women were the best ever? No, those classes reflected the attitudes of men learning and teaching in higher education and the same is true now, except now depending on who teaches the classes you might get an anti-male view or a "balanced" one.
  - ErrantX 17y ago
    I think Boudica [1] is reasonable rebuttal to your point :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boudica http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boudica
    - ErrantX 17y ago
      (huh? this is the exact same point the others are making? Have I got Boudica wrong..... ;))

potatolicious 17y ago

Saying something so obviously controversial and polarizing demands more backup than the mere statement itself. You know your opinion is going to be unpopular, so the onus is upon you to expand upon that idea in your original post, otherwise it looks like you're just trolling. In response to your later justification, though, most western societies have been patriarchal, so the fact that we've been very successful at fighting and killing each other is not an indication that women somehow would not if given the chance. Your argument breaks down to this: since men are so bad at keeping the peace, women must therefore be better at it.

greenlblue 17y ago
In response to your later justification, though, most western societies have been patriarchal, so the fact that we've been very successful at fighting and killing each other is not an indication that women somehow would not if given the chance. But that's just it. The entire time men have been behaving badly women haven't even shown the slightest interest in participating so that's already evidence enough for me to make some conclusions about which is the more docile and empathetic gender.
- lionhearted 17y ago
  > The entire time men have been behaving badly women haven't even shown the slightest interest in participating so that's already evidence enough for me to make some conclusions about which is the more docile and empathetic gender. While we're broadly generalizing, does the fact that men have accounted for 95%+ of all inventions, scientific breakthroughs, philosophy, and governance in history mean men are more proactive and hard working to go alongside women being more docile and empathetic? And does this lend itself easily to a judgment that a particular gender is better?
  - greenlblue 17y ago
    Obviously not. The societal pressures have been different but the thing about people is that it's hard to distinguish between what's actually innate and what's culturally enforced. So given the chance women would be just as proactive and inventive, heck we are already seeing that, but they wouldn't be as aggressive.
- potatolicious 17y ago
  Slightest interest in participating? You realize that in most western, patriarchal societies women were not allowed to participate? Not to mention, many Native American cultures were matriarchal, and had absolutely no compunction about slaughtering each other there, either. I find it somewhat ironic that your justification for saying that women are better than men is that they are more docile and empathetic - the very same reasons that were trotted about to try and deny women the vote (i.e., too docile and easily led by the nose politically, too emotional to vote rationally, etc). It's hard to consider you pro-female when you seem to riding the same train of thought as anti-female folk. I do mean this in the most sincere, respectful way possible: have you considered taking a course in anthropology at your local university? I studied anthropology in a limited way during my time college, it was very eye-opening, and IMHO your viewpoint wouldn't stand up to a simple gut check against even introductory undergrad-level anthro. I know this may sound like I'm bashing you, but I'm really not trying to - IMHO you seem like you have a lot of misconceptions about culture and history which can be rectified by formal education on this subject.
  - greenlblue 17y ago
    You throw around the word patriarchial as if you know what it means. It is a very loaded word and you should define it so I know exactly what you mean. Women have been allowed to participate but not in the way men have been allowed to participate and wanted to participate. I don't know enough about native american culture to comment but I know in jewish culture the family name passes through the female line and men are still the ones committing most of the crimes and fighting most of the wars. I didn't use docile in a negative way. I meant they are less likely to use aggression as a means of resolving conflict. There is nothing anti-female in my stance. Thanks for the anthropology tip but now you are contradicting yourself. Most of formal education is simply a reflection of the attitudes and mores of the current times especially when it comes to classes like anthropology, sociology, psychology, etc. Most people that are technically trained, math, physics, cs, etc. are quite blind to this aspect of education. What do you think they taught in anthropology, sociology, psychology classes when women had very few rights, that women were the best ever? No, those classes reflected the attitudes of men learning and teaching in higher education and the same is true now, except now depending on who teaches the classes you might get an anti-male view or a "balanced" one.
- ErrantX 17y ago
  I think Boudica [1] is reasonable rebuttal to your point :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boudica http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boudica
  - ErrantX 17y ago
    (huh? this is the exact same point the others are making? Have I got Boudica wrong..... ;))