4 ms·

> Now that she's in Europe, the CIA's jurisdiction, she's at greater risk... History has shown that geographic location is no protection from the CIA. MKULTRA

by woodman 10y ago

> Now that she's in Europe, the CIA's jurisdiction, she's at greater risk... History has shown that geographic location is no protection from the CIA. MKULTRA being a clear example of obviously illegal activity. But I really doubt that the CIA would be interested in a TOR developer, that is NSA territory. While the NSA has a much less colorful history, they do burgle when they feel they need to. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_the_United_S...

Pica_soO 10y ago
The only thing protecting you from the CIA are nukes. So what you need as a hacker is some really good zero-days and some excellent viruses - leashed to your survival. If that would be done by a lot of people, backing each other up, keeping the digital backbone of society as hostage, something like a justice system could be restored.
- woodman 10y ago
  Or go with the more direct route, ala Snow Crash, and drive around with a nuclear motorcycle sidecar.
nickpsecurity 10y ago
Nah, history shows CIA rarely messes with people unless they threaten it or are a target. NSA's TAREX and HUMINT teams come from CIA and ISA. They do the foreign work for them. So, if NSA or FBI escalated, a CIA or ISA team could come after her. More likely CIA as they're default.
- woodman 10y ago
  > ...come from CIA and ISA. ISA, yes. CIA, no - or at best extremely rarely. The CIA keeps what it pulls from the military, the NSA by comparison is a revolving door and relies heavily on loaned assets. For TAREX you can pretty easily find the USMC MOS that regularly gets loaned out, they don't even try to hide it. If the NSA wanted something they'd be much more likely to use resources from the host nation, not ISA and especially not CIA.
  - nickpsecurity 10y ago
    I can't speak to tgat. What I do have is numerous writeups from journalists on spooks that did it plus lots of different slides saying it's CIA with a few referencing ISA. National Clandestine Service naturally. You got a solid, public source saying TAREX or NSA HUMINT is rarely CIA?
    - woodman 10y ago
      Likely the same sources you do, but with a different interpretation. https://edwardsnowden.com/docs/docs/tarex-class-guide.pdf https://edwardsnowden.com/docs/docs/tarex-class-guide.pdf Pg 2, change 1: this is very telling - as they've basically redefined the mission statement in order to avoid the association. Pg 3: NSA HUMINT is from the US Army command. Bonus info - this is the primary point of connection to the other services (USMC CI being a good example). Pg 7: TAREX personnel are loaned to CIA operations, not the other way around. Besides that, the history and culture of the two (NSA and CIA) are very important to keep in mind. The NSA is very old school military, it is structured that way and it behaves that way. The CIA is a very different animal, to the point where comparing the two is like comparing the FBI to the National Park Service.
      - nickpsecurity 10y ago
        I overlooked that Army command part. Might be my memory loss from injury since every reference I'm digging up has Army on it. Tks for reminder. I know there's a joint NSA/CIA group similar to TAREX with human assets and CIA capabilities since I used to track them. It's possibly ever secretive Special Collection Service (SCS) mentioned here: http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB506/ http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB506/ It's Sentry Osprey in ECI leaks that mentions TAREX and CIA assets. So, my memory was right. SCS is just a hunch, though, as it's a natural collaboration point that has massive SIGINT resources too. https://theintercept.com/document/2014/10/10/national-initiative-protection-program-sentry-eagle/ https://theintercept.com/document/2014/10/10/national-initia... Far as NSA vs CIA, I'm well aware of that. CIA's history back to Wild Bill is well-documented. Here's NSA's in case you missed the declassification: http://usafssdad.com/files/The-Early-History-of-NSA.pdf http://usafssdad.com/files/The-Early-History-of-NSA.pdf Note: This tangent gone on too long so I'm backing out. Hope the docs are enlightening. Thanks for your tips.

by woodman 10y ago

Pica_soO 10y ago

The only thing protecting you from the CIA are nukes. So what you need as a hacker is some really good zero-days and some excellent viruses - leashed to your survival. If that would be done by a lot of people, backing each other up, keeping the digital backbone of society as hostage, something like a justice system could be restored.

woodman 10y ago
Or go with the more direct route, ala Snow Crash, and drive around with a nuclear motorcycle sidecar.

nickpsecurity 10y ago

Nah, history shows CIA rarely messes with people unless they threaten it or are a target. NSA's TAREX and HUMINT teams come from CIA and ISA. They do the foreign work for them. So, if NSA or FBI escalated, a CIA or ISA team could come after her. More likely CIA as they're default.

woodman 10y ago
> ...come from CIA and ISA. ISA, yes. CIA, no - or at best extremely rarely. The CIA keeps what it pulls from the military, the NSA by comparison is a revolving door and relies heavily on loaned assets. For TAREX you can pretty easily find the USMC MOS that regularly gets loaned out, they don't even try to hide it. If the NSA wanted something they'd be much more likely to use resources from the host nation, not ISA and especially not CIA.
- nickpsecurity 10y ago
  I can't speak to tgat. What I do have is numerous writeups from journalists on spooks that did it plus lots of different slides saying it's CIA with a few referencing ISA. National Clandestine Service naturally. You got a solid, public source saying TAREX or NSA HUMINT is rarely CIA?
  - woodman 10y ago
    Likely the same sources you do, but with a different interpretation. https://edwardsnowden.com/docs/docs/tarex-class-guide.pdf https://edwardsnowden.com/docs/docs/tarex-class-guide.pdf Pg 2, change 1: this is very telling - as they've basically redefined the mission statement in order to avoid the association. Pg 3: NSA HUMINT is from the US Army command. Bonus info - this is the primary point of connection to the other services (USMC CI being a good example). Pg 7: TAREX personnel are loaned to CIA operations, not the other way around. Besides that, the history and culture of the two (NSA and CIA) are very important to keep in mind. The NSA is very old school military, it is structured that way and it behaves that way. The CIA is a very different animal, to the point where comparing the two is like comparing the FBI to the National Park Service.
    - nickpsecurity 10y ago
      I overlooked that Army command part. Might be my memory loss from injury since every reference I'm digging up has Army on it. Tks for reminder. I know there's a joint NSA/CIA group similar to TAREX with human assets and CIA capabilities since I used to track them. It's possibly ever secretive Special Collection Service (SCS) mentioned here: http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB506/ http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB506/ It's Sentry Osprey in ECI leaks that mentions TAREX and CIA assets. So, my memory was right. SCS is just a hunch, though, as it's a natural collaboration point that has massive SIGINT resources too. https://theintercept.com/document/2014/10/10/national-initiative-protection-program-sentry-eagle/ https://theintercept.com/document/2014/10/10/national-initia... Far as NSA vs CIA, I'm well aware of that. CIA's history back to Wild Bill is well-documented. Here's NSA's in case you missed the declassification: http://usafssdad.com/files/The-Early-History-of-NSA.pdf http://usafssdad.com/files/The-Early-History-of-NSA.pdf Note: This tangent gone on too long so I'm backing out. Hope the docs are enlightening. Thanks for your tips.