4 ms·

> the pain of being alone motivates us to seek the safety of companionship, Yes. > which in turn benefits the species by encouraging group cooperation and pro

by sridca 10y ago

> the pain of being alone motivates us to seek the safety of companionship, Yes. > which in turn benefits the species by encouraging group cooperation and protection. Yet, a fear-driven cooperation and protection is bollocks compared to a spirited one (as illustrated by the French expressions bien dans ma peau and joie de vivre).

lgas 10y ago
Perhaps you could elaborate on that? I know what both expressions mean but I have no idea what it is that you think they illustrate about cooperation, loneliness, etc.
- sridca 10y ago
  One is fear-driven, and thus highly dependent on other people's granting of validation. The other is self-generated spirited enjoyment of anything one might do, with little dependance on the validation provided by other people. Essentially, the difference is to do with which set of emotions are being dominant: loneliness/ validation/ approval-seeking versus enjoyment/ spiritedness/ play. Think of the fun inherent in hobbyist programming, but extended to life at large.
curiousgal 10y ago
Another French expression to go along would be Sartre's "Hell is other people". Which is the reason I choose to distance myself from people.
- sridca 10y ago
  Withdrawal is a common reaction to stress (loneliness). However a reaction is not necessarily a solution.
  - icanhackit 10y ago
    A lot of people who isolate themselves can be perfectly normal and it can be a valid solution to the source of their stress. Deep thinking, introspection and creativity thrives without interruption. It depends on the individual.
    - sridca 10y ago
      The only solution that is worth its name is the utter or virtual absence of the problem (loneliness) it is intended to solve, otherwise it is a second-rate one. Withdrawal, no matter how "valid" and "normal" as deemed by a segment of society, does not fall under that felicitous characterization. Do the people that withdraw generally demonstrate bien dans ma peau and joie de vivre?
      - icanhackit 10y ago
        > Do the people that withdraw generally demonstrate bien dans ma peau and joie de vivre? Generally, no. But if someone withdrew to a monastery to seek enlightenment then this question lacks significance. Withdrawal can be a tool that allows us to control envy, desire, distraction and other aspects of human existence which can be destructive or a mental nuisance. How would you posit your question to an existential nihilist? To them it would have no meaning.
        sridca 10y ago
        > Generally, no. Then, no matter how “valid” and “normal” their modus operandi may be it is of no relevance to someone looking to enjoy life (bien dans ma peau and joie de vivre) instead of wasting time — and it is indeed such a waste of life, don’t you think — feeling alone or withdrawing (via dissociating from the said loneliness). > How would you posit your question to an existential nihilist? To them it would have no meaning. It takes the naiveté (innocence/ unsophistication; not gullibility) of a child to want to enjoy life. Nihilists, and spiritualists, are too sophisticated for that.
      - jdbernard 10y ago
        Withdrawal can be a solution to stress and cauterized is correct in saying it depends on the person. I know I don't speak for the general case, but for me personally time alone withdrawn from other people is absolutely essential to experience the joy of life and feeling good about myself. That is not to say that I don't enjoy time with family and friends, but I become morose and listless if I go too long without withdrawing from people. I get frustrated when I read articles like this and comments like yours. I understand intellectually and through secondhand experience of others how crippling loneliness and isolation can be for most people. However, I can honestly say that I have no memories of ever having felt "lonely" in the way described as the article and I know myself well enough to know what makes me happy. Telling me that because my life doesn't fit your pattern I must be unhappy is a bit presumptuous, don't you think?
  - cauterized 10y ago
    For an introvert, aloneness does not necessarily imply loneliness. Introverts can be lonely too - but we often need to be alone. Knowing there are specific people out there who will want to spend time with you again when you're ready to engage can be enough to stave off loneliness for an extreme introvert even through very long periods of aloneness.
    - sridca 10y ago
      While I’m wary of what people who categorize themselves as “introverts” claim, my comment above was about social withdrawal as a response to loneliness; and further about how a response (reaction) to stress is not necessarily a solution.

by sridca 10y ago

lgas 10y ago

Perhaps you could elaborate on that? I know what both expressions mean but I have no idea what it is that you think they illustrate about cooperation, loneliness, etc.

sridca 10y ago
One is fear-driven, and thus highly dependent on other people's granting of validation. The other is self-generated spirited enjoyment of anything one might do, with little dependance on the validation provided by other people. Essentially, the difference is to do with which set of emotions are being dominant: loneliness/ validation/ approval-seeking versus enjoyment/ spiritedness/ play. Think of the fun inherent in hobbyist programming, but extended to life at large.

curiousgal 10y ago

Another French expression to go along would be Sartre's "Hell is other people". Which is the reason I choose to distance myself from people.

sridca 10y ago
Withdrawal is a common reaction to stress (loneliness). However a reaction is not necessarily a solution.
- icanhackit 10y ago
  A lot of people who isolate themselves can be perfectly normal and it can be a valid solution to the source of their stress. Deep thinking, introspection and creativity thrives without interruption. It depends on the individual.
  - sridca 10y ago
    The only solution that is worth its name is the utter or virtual absence of the problem (loneliness) it is intended to solve, otherwise it is a second-rate one. Withdrawal, no matter how "valid" and "normal" as deemed by a segment of society, does not fall under that felicitous characterization. Do the people that withdraw generally demonstrate bien dans ma peau and joie de vivre?
    - icanhackit 10y ago
      > Do the people that withdraw generally demonstrate bien dans ma peau and joie de vivre? Generally, no. But if someone withdrew to a monastery to seek enlightenment then this question lacks significance. Withdrawal can be a tool that allows us to control envy, desire, distraction and other aspects of human existence which can be destructive or a mental nuisance. How would you posit your question to an existential nihilist? To them it would have no meaning.
      - sridca 10y ago
        > Generally, no. Then, no matter how “valid” and “normal” their modus operandi may be it is of no relevance to someone looking to enjoy life (bien dans ma peau and joie de vivre) instead of wasting time — and it is indeed such a waste of life, don’t you think — feeling alone or withdrawing (via dissociating from the said loneliness). > How would you posit your question to an existential nihilist? To them it would have no meaning. It takes the naiveté (innocence/ unsophistication; not gullibility) of a child to want to enjoy life. Nihilists, and spiritualists, are too sophisticated for that.
    - jdbernard 10y ago
      Withdrawal can be a solution to stress and cauterized is correct in saying it depends on the person. I know I don't speak for the general case, but for me personally time alone withdrawn from other people is absolutely essential to experience the joy of life and feeling good about myself. That is not to say that I don't enjoy time with family and friends, but I become morose and listless if I go too long without withdrawing from people. I get frustrated when I read articles like this and comments like yours. I understand intellectually and through secondhand experience of others how crippling loneliness and isolation can be for most people. However, I can honestly say that I have no memories of ever having felt "lonely" in the way described as the article and I know myself well enough to know what makes me happy. Telling me that because my life doesn't fit your pattern I must be unhappy is a bit presumptuous, don't you think?
- cauterized 10y ago
  For an introvert, aloneness does not necessarily imply loneliness. Introverts can be lonely too - but we often need to be alone. Knowing there are specific people out there who will want to spend time with you again when you're ready to engage can be enough to stave off loneliness for an extreme introvert even through very long periods of aloneness.
  - sridca 10y ago
    While I’m wary of what people who categorize themselves as “introverts” claim, my comment above was about social withdrawal as a response to loneliness; and further about how a response (reaction) to stress is not necessarily a solution.