4 ms·

what's the point of going to Germany; might as well have stayed and faced the music. Germany would extradite her immediately. seriously, FBI probably has office

what's the point of going to Germany; might as well have stayed and faced the music. Germany would extradite her immediately. seriously, FBI probably has offices there.

toomuchtodo 10y ago
Germany is going to require evidence before extradition.
- pluma 10y ago
  Depends on how nicely the US asks and how much they can avoid attracting public attention. Germany apparently[0][1] still maintains secret contracts with the US (and supposedly other former Allied forces) despite the supposed "full sovereignty" provided in the Two-Plus-Four Agreement of 1990. Also the lackluster official response to the NSA revelations and other US diplomatic debacles indicates the German government values the German-American relationships much higher than the well-being of German residents[2] (if not citizens). [0]: http://www.zeit.de/politik/deutschland/2013-10/nsa-uerberwachung-merkel-interview-foschepoth http://www.zeit.de/politik/deutschland/2013-10/nsa-uerberwac... (German) [1]: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alliiertes_Vorbehaltsrecht https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alliiertes_Vorbehaltsrecht (also German) [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murat_Kurnaz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murat_Kurnaz
benevol 10y ago
There are pros and cons. Whatever her reasoning, she chose the same destination as people like Jacob Applebaum who "[...] has moved to Berlin, where he has applied for residence authorization; his stated reasons include that he doesn't want to go back to the USA because he doesn't feel safe and that privacy protections are better in Germany than in the US. In December 2013, Appelbaum said he suspected the U.S. government of breaking into his Berlin apartment." [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Appelbaum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Appelbaum
thephyber 10y ago
> stayed and faced the music What "faced the music"? That idiom implies she did something wrong. She's fearful of gagged coersion, not necessarily of being charged with a crime. All she has to do is stop contributing to the Tor Project if she is coerced, but apparently she is more interested in moving to a country that has values more closely aligned with the Tor Project. Yes, the German government could potentially use similar coercive means, the CIA could do it while she is in Germany, or the US judicial system could extradite her (but AFAIK that would require charges being brought).
- supergirl 10y ago
  I was being sarcastic with "faced the music", sir
  - dTal 10y ago
    You seem to have paid for it in downvotes. People are really sensitive to that phrase after it became a political sound bite regarding Snowden.
    - supergirl 10y ago
      I see. I didn't know it's associated with Snowden.
      - woodman 10y ago
        FYI: "He stole very important information that has fallen into the wrong hands so I think he should not be brought home without facing the music." --Hillary Clinton http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/13/clinton-sanders-snowden-nsa-democratic-debate http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/13/clinton-sande...
        dTal 10y ago
        It became something of a meme. John Kerry: "Edward Snowden is a coward, he is a traitor and he has betrayed his country, and if he wants to come home tomorrow to face the music, he can do so" Nancy Pelosi: "I think he should come back and face the music for what he did … [but] the music shouldn’t be the death penalty or life in prison." All Democrats, I notice.

what's the point of going to Germany; might as well have stayed and faced the music. Germany would extradite her immediately. seriously, FBI probably has offices there.

toomuchtodo 10y ago

Germany is going to require evidence before extradition.

pluma 10y ago
Depends on how nicely the US asks and how much they can avoid attracting public attention. Germany apparently[0][1] still maintains secret contracts with the US (and supposedly other former Allied forces) despite the supposed "full sovereignty" provided in the Two-Plus-Four Agreement of 1990. Also the lackluster official response to the NSA revelations and other US diplomatic debacles indicates the German government values the German-American relationships much higher than the well-being of German residents[2] (if not citizens). [0]: http://www.zeit.de/politik/deutschland/2013-10/nsa-uerberwachung-merkel-interview-foschepoth http://www.zeit.de/politik/deutschland/2013-10/nsa-uerberwac... (German) [1]: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alliiertes_Vorbehaltsrecht https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alliiertes_Vorbehaltsrecht (also German) [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murat_Kurnaz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murat_Kurnaz

benevol 10y ago

There are pros and cons. Whatever her reasoning, she chose the same destination as people like Jacob Applebaum who "[...] has moved to Berlin, where he has applied for residence authorization; his stated reasons include that he doesn't want to go back to the USA because he doesn't feel safe and that privacy protections are better in Germany than in the US. In December 2013, Appelbaum said he suspected the U.S. government of breaking into his Berlin apartment." [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Appelbaum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Appelbaum

thephyber 10y ago

> stayed and faced the music What "faced the music"? That idiom implies she did something wrong. She's fearful of gagged coersion, not necessarily of being charged with a crime. All she has to do is stop contributing to the Tor Project if she is coerced, but apparently she is more interested in moving to a country that has values more closely aligned with the Tor Project. Yes, the German government could potentially use similar coercive means, the CIA could do it while she is in Germany, or the US judicial system could extradite her (but AFAIK that would require charges being brought).

supergirl 10y ago
I was being sarcastic with "faced the music", sir
- dTal 10y ago
  You seem to have paid for it in downvotes. People are really sensitive to that phrase after it became a political sound bite regarding Snowden.
  - supergirl 10y ago
    I see. I didn't know it's associated with Snowden.
    - woodman 10y ago
      FYI: "He stole very important information that has fallen into the wrong hands so I think he should not be brought home without facing the music." --Hillary Clinton http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/13/clinton-sanders-snowden-nsa-democratic-debate http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/13/clinton-sande...
      - dTal 10y ago
        It became something of a meme. John Kerry: "Edward Snowden is a coward, he is a traitor and he has betrayed his country, and if he wants to come home tomorrow to face the music, he can do so" Nancy Pelosi: "I think he should come back and face the music for what he did … [but] the music shouldn’t be the death penalty or life in prison." All Democrats, I notice.