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Ok, controversial opinion: "[...] and manage everyday tasks" What exactly do we want to automate at home? I think this whole home automation and smart home st

Ok, controversial opinion: "[...] and manage everyday tasks" What exactly do we want to automate at home? I think this whole home automation and smart home stuff is complete bullshit. Obviously there are some nice things, like "play me song xyz", but IMHO it is completely oversold. There are just not that much things to automate at home. And this does not mean that I think 640K are enough memory for everyone.

dandare 10y ago
I came here to ask people of examples of use cases because I just can not see how this can be useful in this decade.
- sf_rob 10y ago
  I mean, all the turn-key stuff is terrible right now, but I've seen some awesome DIY stuff with Homeseer + IFTTT + bash scripts. My friend's house turns on the front porch light when he gets home, auto-locks the front door if unlocked for more than X minutes, alerts of outside doors that have been open for more than X seconds, dims the lights when he turns on the TV, alerts him when his wife is almost home (she hates that), yells at the dog if he goes into his office, and a hell of a lot more. That said, he's logged dozens of hours getting everything working.
  - protomikron 10y ago
    That is funny. So the motive of your friend is security for himself and surveillance of his wife. The motive of cloud home automation stuff (e.g. Homeseer) is surveillance of its customers, e.g. your friend. It is like turtles all the way down.
  - tamana 10y ago
    Why does his wife let him track her movements?
    - sf_rob 10y ago
      It's more playful annoyance. It's only when she gets within wifi range, but he lives in the country and repeaters across his property.
  - nathan_f77 10y ago
    > yells at the dog if he goes into his office This is my favorite one
- danellis 10y ago
  The video shown in the keynote gives several examples.
CaptSpify 10y ago
* add $thing to the grocery list * order more $thing * schedule an appointment with (doctor|vet|dentist) * start the dishwasher at 4 P.M. * turn on the oven when I get home etc. Just because you can't think of how it will benefit you doesn't mean it's bullshit.
- protomikron 10y ago
  Yeah, bullshit was a hard term, I am sorry, but I just can not see how these things require a specific "home" device; - grocery list: So some kind of Todo list. But you can do that with your mobile computation device, or just take notes physically? - order $thing: I do not think that humans need more convenient buying-experiences than what is already there (think Amazon, food-delivery services, etc.). I guess most people want to _see_ what they pay for and look up specific apps? - doctor schedules: The scheduling problem. Maybe I am out of touch, but I would write an e-mail and/or call? - dish washer cron: Ok, I do not get that? Why would you want to schedule a dish washer job for a specific time? - turn on the oven: Yeah, but there is surely a UI for the oven, that has the functionality to turn on the oven (seems like a core feature). If it's really oldschool, it has a button that one may press (or a slider). That may seem inconvenient, so it may have a web-ui. However there is NO reason whatsoever why it should be connected to the "cloud".
  - Klathmon 10y ago
    - grocery list You could use your phone or take notes on paper, but being able to make a note that i need more flour the second i reach for the bag in the back of the cabinet is significantly easier. - order $thing Again, you might not think so, but instead of just making a note that i need more flour, i'd love to be able to just ask for more flour and know it will be my "normal" brand and will be here in a day or 2. - dish washer Because it's loud, uses up hot water, and at least I often forget to start it until it's too late. I'd love to remember "oh shit i forgot to start the dishes" and just call out to have it go (or say to start at 1am when i'm asleep). - turn on the oven Again, in a perfect world i'd love this ability. I start on dinner and can just ask the oven to be at 425 in 15 minutes. Nobody is asking for it to be connected to the cloud specifically, but if it is and is secure i'd have no problems with it.
gkya 10y ago
- Keep geeky friends out of home? I'm definitely not entering a room with this thing.
tlrobinson 10y ago
I haven't even really explored all the capabilities of Alexa, but I ask Alexa to: 1. read the news (1x per day) 2. play music (~3x per day) 3. turn on/off lights (~8x per day) 4. set a timer (~2x per day) 5. feed the cat (~2x per day... blog post forthcoming)
- protomikron 10y ago
  Yeah, ok, I get that, it is nice. But I do not see some kind of revolution (I am sure I heard that term connected to home automation) that is often proclaimed. For me the time saving is just too low compared with the alternative of wrestling with some kind of UI, but I may change my mind if I try it out for some time? Let's see. //edit: And I think turning lights on/off and playing songs is a really bad example. It is like the Fibonacci sequence of programming language PR. I really do not think one goes with a PL because it has a short solution to generate the Fibonacci sequence. It is nice. But not useful.
  - tlrobinson 10y ago
    Honestly, don't knock it until you try it. Sure I can accomplish the same things by pulling out my phone but it's relaxing to not have to.
  - bobbles 10y ago
    You're basically saying 'why would i want something more convenient?' well... its more convenient!
- nathan_f77 10y ago
  Feeding the cat automatically is pretty cool, but why not use a timer for that?
Kluny 10y ago
I want my bathroom and my dishes to clean themselves. That's all. Nothing else is onerous.
- supster 10y ago
  laundry would be great too :-)
  - Kristine1975 10y ago
    I have a washing machine for that :-)
    - nathan_f77 10y ago
      We're talking about a fully automated laundry that goes a step beyond a washing machine. It's funny, but one of the hardest unsolved problems is actually folding laundry. Everything else is very easy.
    - Kluny 10y ago
      I want a robot that takes my clothes out and hangs them on the line, and is able to distinguish the few items I put in the dryer (socks, undies, towels, sheets).
      - Kristine1975 10y ago
        Sew (washable) RFID tags into your clothes, and you're halfway there.
tremon 10y ago
There are just not that much things to automate at home - laundry: separate my dirty laundry, load and run the washing machine when a laundry bucket is full enough, dry it and fold it - same with dishes: load the dishwasher, run the correct program, put the dishes back in the cupboard - vacuuming, dusting, cleaning windows, etc. - fetch and OCR my (paper) mail, sort by bills/appointments/ads, automatically schedule appointments in my calendar and stage payments for authorization by me. Throw out the flyers. That should suffice for the next 15 years.
- ryandrake 10y ago
  Your first three are already solved. If you want to convert money into "those things happening" hire a maid. The forth one is solved by hiring a personal assistant.
  - tremon 10y ago
    hire a maid Fuck you. I did not get into technology just so we can replace one type of menial labour with the exact same thing, just a different human. How does your proposed solution scale to include the maid's household?

dandare 10y ago

I came here to ask people of examples of use cases because I just can not see how this can be useful in this decade.

sf_rob 10y ago
I mean, all the turn-key stuff is terrible right now, but I've seen some awesome DIY stuff with Homeseer + IFTTT + bash scripts. My friend's house turns on the front porch light when he gets home, auto-locks the front door if unlocked for more than X minutes, alerts of outside doors that have been open for more than X seconds, dims the lights when he turns on the TV, alerts him when his wife is almost home (she hates that), yells at the dog if he goes into his office, and a hell of a lot more. That said, he's logged dozens of hours getting everything working.
- protomikron 10y ago
  That is funny. So the motive of your friend is security for himself and surveillance of his wife. The motive of cloud home automation stuff (e.g. Homeseer) is surveillance of its customers, e.g. your friend. It is like turtles all the way down.
- tamana 10y ago
  Why does his wife let him track her movements?
  - sf_rob 10y ago
    It's more playful annoyance. It's only when she gets within wifi range, but he lives in the country and repeaters across his property.
- nathan_f77 10y ago
  > yells at the dog if he goes into his office This is my favorite one
danellis 10y ago
The video shown in the keynote gives several examples.

CaptSpify 10y ago

* add $thing to the grocery list * order more $thing * schedule an appointment with (doctor|vet|dentist) * start the dishwasher at 4 P.M. * turn on the oven when I get home etc. Just because you can't think of how it will benefit you doesn't mean it's bullshit.

protomikron 10y ago
Yeah, bullshit was a hard term, I am sorry, but I just can not see how these things require a specific "home" device; - grocery list: So some kind of Todo list. But you can do that with your mobile computation device, or just take notes physically? - order $thing: I do not think that humans need more convenient buying-experiences than what is already there (think Amazon, food-delivery services, etc.). I guess most people want to _see_ what they pay for and look up specific apps? - doctor schedules: The scheduling problem. Maybe I am out of touch, but I would write an e-mail and/or call? - dish washer cron: Ok, I do not get that? Why would you want to schedule a dish washer job for a specific time? - turn on the oven: Yeah, but there is surely a UI for the oven, that has the functionality to turn on the oven (seems like a core feature). If it's really oldschool, it has a button that one may press (or a slider). That may seem inconvenient, so it may have a web-ui. However there is NO reason whatsoever why it should be connected to the "cloud".
- Klathmon 10y ago
  - grocery list You could use your phone or take notes on paper, but being able to make a note that i need more flour the second i reach for the bag in the back of the cabinet is significantly easier. - order $thing Again, you might not think so, but instead of just making a note that i need more flour, i'd love to be able to just ask for more flour and know it will be my "normal" brand and will be here in a day or 2. - dish washer Because it's loud, uses up hot water, and at least I often forget to start it until it's too late. I'd love to remember "oh shit i forgot to start the dishes" and just call out to have it go (or say to start at 1am when i'm asleep). - turn on the oven Again, in a perfect world i'd love this ability. I start on dinner and can just ask the oven to be at 425 in 15 minutes. Nobody is asking for it to be connected to the cloud specifically, but if it is and is secure i'd have no problems with it.

gkya 10y ago

- Keep geeky friends out of home? I'm definitely not entering a room with this thing.

tlrobinson 10y ago

I haven't even really explored all the capabilities of Alexa, but I ask Alexa to: 1. read the news (1x per day) 2. play music (~3x per day) 3. turn on/off lights (~8x per day) 4. set a timer (~2x per day) 5. feed the cat (~2x per day... blog post forthcoming)

protomikron 10y ago
Yeah, ok, I get that, it is nice. But I do not see some kind of revolution (I am sure I heard that term connected to home automation) that is often proclaimed. For me the time saving is just too low compared with the alternative of wrestling with some kind of UI, but I may change my mind if I try it out for some time? Let's see. //edit: And I think turning lights on/off and playing songs is a really bad example. It is like the Fibonacci sequence of programming language PR. I really do not think one goes with a PL because it has a short solution to generate the Fibonacci sequence. It is nice. But not useful.
- tlrobinson 10y ago
  Honestly, don't knock it until you try it. Sure I can accomplish the same things by pulling out my phone but it's relaxing to not have to.
- bobbles 10y ago
  You're basically saying 'why would i want something more convenient?' well... its more convenient!
nathan_f77 10y ago
Feeding the cat automatically is pretty cool, but why not use a timer for that?

Kluny 10y ago

I want my bathroom and my dishes to clean themselves. That's all. Nothing else is onerous.

supster 10y ago
laundry would be great too :-)
- Kristine1975 10y ago
  I have a washing machine for that :-)
  - nathan_f77 10y ago
    We're talking about a fully automated laundry that goes a step beyond a washing machine. It's funny, but one of the hardest unsolved problems is actually folding laundry. Everything else is very easy.
  - Kluny 10y ago
    I want a robot that takes my clothes out and hangs them on the line, and is able to distinguish the few items I put in the dryer (socks, undies, towels, sheets).
    - Kristine1975 10y ago
      Sew (washable) RFID tags into your clothes, and you're halfway there.

tremon 10y ago

There are just not that much things to automate at home - laundry: separate my dirty laundry, load and run the washing machine when a laundry bucket is full enough, dry it and fold it - same with dishes: load the dishwasher, run the correct program, put the dishes back in the cupboard - vacuuming, dusting, cleaning windows, etc. - fetch and OCR my (paper) mail, sort by bills/appointments/ads, automatically schedule appointments in my calendar and stage payments for authorization by me. Throw out the flyers. That should suffice for the next 15 years.

ryandrake 10y ago
Your first three are already solved. If you want to convert money into "those things happening" hire a maid. The forth one is solved by hiring a personal assistant.
- tremon 10y ago
  hire a maid Fuck you. I did not get into technology just so we can replace one type of menial labour with the exact same thing, just a different human. How does your proposed solution scale to include the maid's household?