10 ms·

Tor developer dodges FBI, leaves US

114 points by benevol 10y ago

ianleeclark 10y ago
I remember reading another article on HN a few weeks ago (maybe, time flies) where she was planning to go to Berlin. Feels disingenuous for CNN to state she was dodging the FBI if she's been planning to go there.
- LaneRendell 10y ago
  They mention in the article that she had already made those plans, but "put them on overdrive" after the FBI issues.
- maxerickson 10y ago
  Here's the relevant portion of the article: Lovecruft had intended to move to Germany someday, but she put those plans on overdrive. She booked a flight to Berlin that weekend, including a return flight she had no intention of taking -- just to avoid raising suspicions. On Dec. 7, without seeing family or friends, she took a taxi to San Francisco International Airport. She nervously made her way past TSA agents wearing a $1 pair of blue-green aviator sunglasses, unsure if she was breaking any laws by leaving the country. She changed her plans and (apparently) intentionally masked her intentions. It's an obnoxious headline, but it doesn't seem to be particularly inaccurate.
- twblalock 10y ago
  The quote from the developer, in the article, makes it look like she left to avoid dealing with the FBI: > "I was worried they'd ask me to do something that hurts innocent people -- and prevent me from telling people it's happening," she said in an exclusive interview with CNNMoney. This is also fairly convincing: > Lovecruft had intended to move to Germany someday, but she put those plans on overdrive. She booked a flight to Berlin that weekend, including a return flight she had no intention of taking -- just to avoid raising suspicions.
  - thephyber 10y ago
    From the top of her original article: > I had already been in the process of moving, permanently, to Germany, and had retained a German immigrations lawyer several months prior to these events. [1] It's not like she just impulsively thought about Germany and left that week. Yes, it was a catalyst, but it seems to me that she was already on the fence, ready to leave. She even said she was waiting for her visa approval to be accepted after the FBI had made a request to interview her. [1] https://blog.patternsinthevoid.net/fbi-harassment.html https://blog.patternsinthevoid.net/fbi-harassment.html
    - twblalock 10y ago
      It has been established that she had already been considering a move to Germany. That is not at issue here. The issue is whether or not she timed her departure to avoid contact with the FBI. If she did, the article's premise is justifiable. She bought a return ticket she did not intend to use, to throw the FBI off her trail. She would not have done that if not to avoid the FBI. Given this, and her own statements in the CNN article, the evidence that she timed her departure to avoid contact with the FBI is overwhelming.
- cmiles74 10y ago
  I think this may be the article you are thinking of, the comments also include links to a blog post they wrote. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11643246 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11643246
jonnybgood 10y ago
This is a non-story. Nobody knows what FBI wants. It may actually be for legitimate reasons or not. It seems before FBI just wanted to ask questions, but since Isis didn't want to be asked any questions the FBI now went and got a subpeona. That's it.
- x0x0 10y ago
  If that were true, they would have had no problems communicating through her lawyer initially. The previously linked article discussed the FBI threatening to grab her off the streets and interrogate her without counsel: "If we happen to run into her on the street, we're gonna' be asking her some questions without you present." and "We would strongly prefer to meet her in person. We have teams in Los Angeles, San Francisco, Chicago, New York, and Atlanta keeping an eye out for her" [1,2] [1] http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/tor-developer-isis-agora-lovecruft-publicly-accuses-fbi-harassment-1558607 http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/tor-developer-isis-agora-lovecruft-... [2] https://github.com/isislovecruft/patternsinthevoid/blob/master/content/hacking/fbi.md https://github.com/isislovecruft/patternsinthevoid/blob/mast...
- kafkaesq 10y ago
  Nobody knows that the FBI wants. It may actually be for legitimate reasons or not. Which is precisely the point -- Lovecruft, justifiably, had no way of knowing what the government operatives had in mind, and wanted from her; whether it was something comparatively insipid and harmless (just some junior investigators throwing darts, and checking boxes on a list someone gave them); or something all-out insane and pernicious, like what they did to Swartz. Would she be woken up at 6 a.m., and made to watch as agents ransacked her apartment, confiscating anything that looked like personal notes, and anything that looked like a digital device? Would she be strip-searched, and held in solitary confinement for hours (even after family and friends posted bail), or longer, with no explanation? Would she face the prospect of indefinite imprisonment if she refused to disclose the passphrases to any of her encrypted devices? Would she be pressured into providing testimony against her friends and collaborators -- and/or "turning" outright, and becoming a paid informant? Would she hold her ground? Would she break? Any of the above was a very real possibility. Which is why this is anything but a "non-story."
supergirl 10y ago
what's the point of going to Germany; might as well have stayed and faced the music. Germany would extradite her immediately. seriously, FBI probably has offices there.
- toomuchtodo 10y ago
  Germany is going to require evidence before extradition.
  - pluma 10y ago
    Depends on how nicely the US asks and how much they can avoid attracting public attention. Germany apparently[0][1] still maintains secret contracts with the US (and supposedly other former Allied forces) despite the supposed "full sovereignty" provided in the Two-Plus-Four Agreement of 1990. Also the lackluster official response to the NSA revelations and other US diplomatic debacles indicates the German government values the German-American relationships much higher than the well-being of German residents[2] (if not citizens). [0]: http://www.zeit.de/politik/deutschland/2013-10/nsa-uerberwachung-merkel-interview-foschepoth http://www.zeit.de/politik/deutschland/2013-10/nsa-uerberwac... (German) [1]: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alliiertes_Vorbehaltsrecht https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alliiertes_Vorbehaltsrecht (also German) [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murat_Kurnaz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murat_Kurnaz
- benevol 10y ago
  There are pros and cons. Whatever her reasoning, she chose the same destination as people like Jacob Applebaum who "[...] has moved to Berlin, where he has applied for residence authorization; his stated reasons include that he doesn't want to go back to the USA because he doesn't feel safe and that privacy protections are better in Germany than in the US. In December 2013, Appelbaum said he suspected the U.S. government of breaking into his Berlin apartment." [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Appelbaum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Appelbaum
- thephyber 10y ago
  > stayed and faced the music What "faced the music"? That idiom implies she did something wrong. She's fearful of gagged coersion, not necessarily of being charged with a crime. All she has to do is stop contributing to the Tor Project if she is coerced, but apparently she is more interested in moving to a country that has values more closely aligned with the Tor Project. Yes, the German government could potentially use similar coercive means, the CIA could do it while she is in Germany, or the US judicial system could extradite her (but AFAIK that would require charges being brought).
oneloop 10y ago
What's wrong with this country, that nowadays people are so afraid of being disappeared that they run away to Russia, Ecuador, and Germany. We're doing something wrong.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- rhino369 10y ago
  This person had no reasonable reason to flee to Germany. Beyond paranoia and maybe a persecution complex. The FBI isn't going to "disappear" someone they subpoena.
  - logn 10y ago
    Yes unlikely this person would be disappeared. Tor Project distributes binaries, though. So it's not unreasonable to immediately hop on a flight to leave the country permanently. Once they hand you a national security letter (or use some other leverage), not sure what effective recourse you have. I think it would be like dodging service in a lawsuit (which can work).
    - imglorp 10y ago
      I think this is the most likely answer. Once handed an NSL, you either have to quit the project or hurt people; or maybe even less than two options.
      - ryanlol 10y ago
        What is a NSL supposed to achieve here? What non-content information could they have wanted from her?
        voxic11 10y ago
        If she has commit rights to the tor project they could require her to submit a patch which could be used to reviel metadata about tor users.
gumby 10y ago
Again, let's not forget that the US government explicitly funded development of TOR: https://www.torproject.org/about/sponsors.html.en https://www.torproject.org/about/sponsors.html.en and https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jul/29/us-government-funding-tor-18m-onion-router https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jul/29/us-govern... (and many more) as a way of helping people avoid the depredations of oppressive governments.
- thephyber 10y ago
  Let's also not forget that the US government employs well over 1 million employees and several million contractors. They don't all move in the same direction or have a hive mind. The Department of the Navy developed the original Tor. The State Department helped fund it (because it can be used by dissidents in countries with authoritarian governments). The US intelligence apparatus has allegedly funded ways to analyze and/or sabotage anonymous usage of Tor.
  - awqrre 10y ago
    Are the Department of the Navy and the State Department still funding it or did they came to their "senses"?
- richmarr 10y ago
  > US government explicitly funded development of TOR ... as a way of helping people avoid the depredations of oppressive governments. How are those rose-tinted spectacles working out :) "It was originally developed with the U.S. Navy in mind, for the primary purpose of protecting government communications" https://www.torproject.org/about/torusers.html.en https://www.torproject.org/about/torusers.html.en
- nickpsecurity 10y ago
  Nah, it's that plus ability to create propaganda to use against locals to further imperialist agenda and protect our assets over there. Voice of America, for example, was a CIA spokespiece being funded by the same group.
trhway 10y ago
It took Apple, a multi-hundred-billion dollar corp., all its legal force to fight against being forced by FBI to crack the phone. A person being forced to do similar stuff (like backdooring Tor for example) by way of NSL wouldn't probably be able even to involve his/her lawyer.
chagas 10y ago
A thing one should clearly understand, if the FBI is looking to "talk" to someone in this manner, it is because they ALREADY have the warrant in the 'oven' and ready to go. They are simply attempting to chat to SIMPLIFY their work in hopes the subject of the warrant voluntarily or inadvertently incriminate oneself.
- nickpsecurity 10y ago
  That's exactly what they're doing. Worse, fleeing after a visit make average jury think she's guilty.
  - chagas 10y ago
    Worrying about the jury should be the least of her concerns at this point. If she does not have the resources (millions) to mount a vigorous defence it does not matter. And even if she does have the money, the prosecution will try to take it away from her via asset freezes, large bails, etc. Awhile in jail, she won't be able to work effectively with limited phone calls and monitored attorney visits.
    - nickpsecurity 10y ago
      Juries are a double-edged sword: they can be the end of you or your only hope. Plenty of people go free in trials despite odds against them. Certain things you do upon encountering the police can greatly increase or decrease your odds of winning in court. It's imperative to behave in a way that minimizes risk immediately and long-term. Fleeing a country when a cop merely asks you to talk to them will look guilty to almost every judge or jury out there. There's a small subset you can convince given circumstances but this is a big no-no in general. Regarding the rest, that might happen, it might not happen, and yet people still get off with decent attorneys. Again, police investigations involve lots of probability. You play the odds to your benefit. If you're worried about that stuff, then leave America for some country that has no problems in its judicial proceedings plus whatever freedoms and economic opportunities you need. Do it now. Don't wait till a FBI agent is interested in you or you're on their List.
ChemicalWarfare 10y ago
Highly doubt she'd be escaping FBI in Germany. If SHTF and there's an actual federal warrant issued she'll get extradited back to the US of A in a hurry. At that point she could of course try escaping to Russia for example but that's a whole another can of worms altogether. From what I read in the news the EU is tightening their borders quite a bit and is reinstating intra-EU border control to deal with the refugee crisis so that won't help either.
nickpsecurity 10y ago
Ok, tired from work, but on a laptop finally. Here's a try at an assessment of the situation tying it all together. Ok, Tor's success & team's safety is often brought up in NSA, FBI, & so on discussions but shouldn't be. It's exceptional. It was created to protect military comms. CIA-connected and State Dept found great use for it. Plenty of support from powerful groups just as much as opposition from NSA and FBI. Harder to attack legally as crypto-export exempts apps for resisting censorship, it's non-profit, and source is out there. Technically, it will stop opponents government fans use it against but often fail in reality against NSA or FBI. Potentially. Concept is called NOBUS and they like those things. So, Tor is exceptional in the sense that it's unlikely to get strong, legal or technical attack... destructive attack... by U.S. government's scariest. Less, but some, risk for its developers as well. Another background is U.S. legal system. Ours is an adversarial system where anything you say to cops can be ignored or used against you as highest form of eyewitness testimony (confession) for conviction. What you say that assures innocence is hearsay and tossed out. Feds and prosecutors can use any number of lies and scams... including fake jobs or deals... to trick you into confession. The result is that around 97% never make it to trial: plea bargained as they appear to have no hope of winning. Prosecutors especially like to make severe examples out of hackers with Aaron Schwartz a recent example. Defense attorneys advice: never talk to the police or consent to searchers. Repeatedly ask for lawyer. So, we have a woman... idk her so going by the article... that works on Tor project or software. Implies she might be a hacker or possess such skills. An organization that absolutely hates hackers, activists, and Tor contacts her needing help. She and her lawyer agree to meet them to see what's up but they want her alone. They try to contact her directly despite her insistence on a lawyer. At this point, it's either a legitimate request for assistance on a case or they're building a case against her while trying for an early confession or strong evidence using a common tactic. She can't know since they won't tell her. And can legally lie. She decided to flee to Germany. They'll at least have to present some evidence to get her extradited. She feels she might avoid the NSL's or any forced backdoors over in Germany. She was also going to go over there anyway. So, that's her decision. Now, it might be a bad idea. One, if FBI's interest was good or small bad, her running to another country just put her on a bad list they keep. Two, running when cops show up indicates guilt to many judges and juries. Three, any protections she has if FBI or NSA target her within American jurisdiction disappeared the moment she left. She can now be targeted by German authorities, NSA, CIA, and Army. It's unlikely outside of electronic eavesdropping or extradition given what I said about Tor being special. So, likely outcomes are that they'll ignore her or we'll find out what they're wanting with higher odds of conviction if it's a charge since she fled. That's the situation as I see it after studying these organizations for a long time. I'm also operating with very limited information about her and her situation. So, I only have so much confidence in the conclusions.

114 points by benevol 10y ago

I remember reading another article on HN a few weeks ago (maybe, time flies) where she was planning to go to Berlin. Feels disingenuous for CNN to state she was dodging the FBI if she's been planning to go there.

LaneRendell 10y ago
They mention in the article that she had already made those plans, but "put them on overdrive" after the FBI issues.
maxerickson 10y ago
Here's the relevant portion of the article: Lovecruft had intended to move to Germany someday, but she put those plans on overdrive. She booked a flight to Berlin that weekend, including a return flight she had no intention of taking -- just to avoid raising suspicions. On Dec. 7, without seeing family or friends, she took a taxi to San Francisco International Airport. She nervously made her way past TSA agents wearing a $1 pair of blue-green aviator sunglasses, unsure if she was breaking any laws by leaving the country. She changed her plans and (apparently) intentionally masked her intentions. It's an obnoxious headline, but it doesn't seem to be particularly inaccurate.
twblalock 10y ago
The quote from the developer, in the article, makes it look like she left to avoid dealing with the FBI: > "I was worried they'd ask me to do something that hurts innocent people -- and prevent me from telling people it's happening," she said in an exclusive interview with CNNMoney. This is also fairly convincing: > Lovecruft had intended to move to Germany someday, but she put those plans on overdrive. She booked a flight to Berlin that weekend, including a return flight she had no intention of taking -- just to avoid raising suspicions.
- thephyber 10y ago
  From the top of her original article: > I had already been in the process of moving, permanently, to Germany, and had retained a German immigrations lawyer several months prior to these events. [1] It's not like she just impulsively thought about Germany and left that week. Yes, it was a catalyst, but it seems to me that she was already on the fence, ready to leave. She even said she was waiting for her visa approval to be accepted after the FBI had made a request to interview her. [1] https://blog.patternsinthevoid.net/fbi-harassment.html https://blog.patternsinthevoid.net/fbi-harassment.html
  - twblalock 10y ago
    It has been established that she had already been considering a move to Germany. That is not at issue here. The issue is whether or not she timed her departure to avoid contact with the FBI. If she did, the article's premise is justifiable. She bought a return ticket she did not intend to use, to throw the FBI off her trail. She would not have done that if not to avoid the FBI. Given this, and her own statements in the CNN article, the evidence that she timed her departure to avoid contact with the FBI is overwhelming.
cmiles74 10y ago
I think this may be the article you are thinking of, the comments also include links to a blog post they wrote. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11643246 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11643246

jonnybgood 10y ago

This is a non-story. Nobody knows what FBI wants. It may actually be for legitimate reasons or not. It seems before FBI just wanted to ask questions, but since Isis didn't want to be asked any questions the FBI now went and got a subpeona. That's it.

x0x0 10y ago
If that were true, they would have had no problems communicating through her lawyer initially. The previously linked article discussed the FBI threatening to grab her off the streets and interrogate her without counsel: "If we happen to run into her on the street, we're gonna' be asking her some questions without you present." and "We would strongly prefer to meet her in person. We have teams in Los Angeles, San Francisco, Chicago, New York, and Atlanta keeping an eye out for her" [1,2] [1] http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/tor-developer-isis-agora-lovecruft-publicly-accuses-fbi-harassment-1558607 http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/tor-developer-isis-agora-lovecruft-... [2] https://github.com/isislovecruft/patternsinthevoid/blob/master/content/hacking/fbi.md https://github.com/isislovecruft/patternsinthevoid/blob/mast...
kafkaesq 10y ago
Nobody knows that the FBI wants. It may actually be for legitimate reasons or not. Which is precisely the point -- Lovecruft, justifiably, had no way of knowing what the government operatives had in mind, and wanted from her; whether it was something comparatively insipid and harmless (just some junior investigators throwing darts, and checking boxes on a list someone gave them); or something all-out insane and pernicious, like what they did to Swartz. Would she be woken up at 6 a.m., and made to watch as agents ransacked her apartment, confiscating anything that looked like personal notes, and anything that looked like a digital device? Would she be strip-searched, and held in solitary confinement for hours (even after family and friends posted bail), or longer, with no explanation? Would she face the prospect of indefinite imprisonment if she refused to disclose the passphrases to any of her encrypted devices? Would she be pressured into providing testimony against her friends and collaborators -- and/or "turning" outright, and becoming a paid informant? Would she hold her ground? Would she break? Any of the above was a very real possibility. Which is why this is anything but a "non-story."

supergirl 10y ago

what's the point of going to Germany; might as well have stayed and faced the music. Germany would extradite her immediately. seriously, FBI probably has offices there.

toomuchtodo 10y ago
Germany is going to require evidence before extradition.
- pluma 10y ago
  Depends on how nicely the US asks and how much they can avoid attracting public attention. Germany apparently[0][1] still maintains secret contracts with the US (and supposedly other former Allied forces) despite the supposed "full sovereignty" provided in the Two-Plus-Four Agreement of 1990. Also the lackluster official response to the NSA revelations and other US diplomatic debacles indicates the German government values the German-American relationships much higher than the well-being of German residents[2] (if not citizens). [0]: http://www.zeit.de/politik/deutschland/2013-10/nsa-uerberwachung-merkel-interview-foschepoth http://www.zeit.de/politik/deutschland/2013-10/nsa-uerberwac... (German) [1]: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alliiertes_Vorbehaltsrecht https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alliiertes_Vorbehaltsrecht (also German) [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murat_Kurnaz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murat_Kurnaz
benevol 10y ago
There are pros and cons. Whatever her reasoning, she chose the same destination as people like Jacob Applebaum who "[...] has moved to Berlin, where he has applied for residence authorization; his stated reasons include that he doesn't want to go back to the USA because he doesn't feel safe and that privacy protections are better in Germany than in the US. In December 2013, Appelbaum said he suspected the U.S. government of breaking into his Berlin apartment." [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Appelbaum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Appelbaum
thephyber 10y ago
> stayed and faced the music What "faced the music"? That idiom implies she did something wrong. She's fearful of gagged coersion, not necessarily of being charged with a crime. All she has to do is stop contributing to the Tor Project if she is coerced, but apparently she is more interested in moving to a country that has values more closely aligned with the Tor Project. Yes, the German government could potentially use similar coercive means, the CIA could do it while she is in Germany, or the US judicial system could extradite her (but AFAIK that would require charges being brought).

oneloop 10y ago

What's wrong with this country, that nowadays people are so afraid of being disappeared that they run away to Russia, Ecuador, and Germany. We're doing something wrong.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
rhino369 10y ago
This person had no reasonable reason to flee to Germany. Beyond paranoia and maybe a persecution complex. The FBI isn't going to "disappear" someone they subpoena.
- logn 10y ago
  Yes unlikely this person would be disappeared. Tor Project distributes binaries, though. So it's not unreasonable to immediately hop on a flight to leave the country permanently. Once they hand you a national security letter (or use some other leverage), not sure what effective recourse you have. I think it would be like dodging service in a lawsuit (which can work).
  - imglorp 10y ago
    I think this is the most likely answer. Once handed an NSL, you either have to quit the project or hurt people; or maybe even less than two options.
    - ryanlol 10y ago
      What is a NSL supposed to achieve here? What non-content information could they have wanted from her?
      - voxic11 10y ago
        If she has commit rights to the tor project they could require her to submit a patch which could be used to reviel metadata about tor users.

gumby 10y ago

Again, let's not forget that the US government explicitly funded development of TOR: https://www.torproject.org/about/sponsors.html.en https://www.torproject.org/about/sponsors.html.en and https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jul/29/us-government-funding-tor-18m-onion-router https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jul/29/us-govern... (and many more) as a way of helping people avoid the depredations of oppressive governments.

thephyber 10y ago
Let's also not forget that the US government employs well over 1 million employees and several million contractors. They don't all move in the same direction or have a hive mind. The Department of the Navy developed the original Tor. The State Department helped fund it (because it can be used by dissidents in countries with authoritarian governments). The US intelligence apparatus has allegedly funded ways to analyze and/or sabotage anonymous usage of Tor.
- awqrre 10y ago
  Are the Department of the Navy and the State Department still funding it or did they came to their "senses"?
richmarr 10y ago
> US government explicitly funded development of TOR ... as a way of helping people avoid the depredations of oppressive governments. How are those rose-tinted spectacles working out :) "It was originally developed with the U.S. Navy in mind, for the primary purpose of protecting government communications" https://www.torproject.org/about/torusers.html.en https://www.torproject.org/about/torusers.html.en
nickpsecurity 10y ago
Nah, it's that plus ability to create propaganda to use against locals to further imperialist agenda and protect our assets over there. Voice of America, for example, was a CIA spokespiece being funded by the same group.

trhway 10y ago

It took Apple, a multi-hundred-billion dollar corp., all its legal force to fight against being forced by FBI to crack the phone. A person being forced to do similar stuff (like backdooring Tor for example) by way of NSL wouldn't probably be able even to involve his/her lawyer.

chagas 10y ago

A thing one should clearly understand, if the FBI is looking to "talk" to someone in this manner, it is because they ALREADY have the warrant in the 'oven' and ready to go. They are simply attempting to chat to SIMPLIFY their work in hopes the subject of the warrant voluntarily or inadvertently incriminate oneself.

nickpsecurity 10y ago
That's exactly what they're doing. Worse, fleeing after a visit make average jury think she's guilty.
- chagas 10y ago
  Worrying about the jury should be the least of her concerns at this point. If she does not have the resources (millions) to mount a vigorous defence it does not matter. And even if she does have the money, the prosecution will try to take it away from her via asset freezes, large bails, etc. Awhile in jail, she won't be able to work effectively with limited phone calls and monitored attorney visits.
  - nickpsecurity 10y ago
    Juries are a double-edged sword: they can be the end of you or your only hope. Plenty of people go free in trials despite odds against them. Certain things you do upon encountering the police can greatly increase or decrease your odds of winning in court. It's imperative to behave in a way that minimizes risk immediately and long-term. Fleeing a country when a cop merely asks you to talk to them will look guilty to almost every judge or jury out there. There's a small subset you can convince given circumstances but this is a big no-no in general. Regarding the rest, that might happen, it might not happen, and yet people still get off with decent attorneys. Again, police investigations involve lots of probability. You play the odds to your benefit. If you're worried about that stuff, then leave America for some country that has no problems in its judicial proceedings plus whatever freedoms and economic opportunities you need. Do it now. Don't wait till a FBI agent is interested in you or you're on their List.

ChemicalWarfare 10y ago

Highly doubt she'd be escaping FBI in Germany. If SHTF and there's an actual federal warrant issued she'll get extradited back to the US of A in a hurry. At that point she could of course try escaping to Russia for example but that's a whole another can of worms altogether. From what I read in the news the EU is tightening their borders quite a bit and is reinstating intra-EU border control to deal with the refugee crisis so that won't help either.

nickpsecurity 10y ago

Ok, tired from work, but on a laptop finally. Here's a try at an assessment of the situation tying it all together. Ok, Tor's success & team's safety is often brought up in NSA, FBI, & so on discussions but shouldn't be. It's exceptional. It was created to protect military comms. CIA-connected and State Dept found great use for it. Plenty of support from powerful groups just as much as opposition from NSA and FBI. Harder to attack legally as crypto-export exempts apps for resisting censorship, it's non-profit, and source is out there. Technically, it will stop opponents government fans use it against but often fail in reality against NSA or FBI. Potentially. Concept is called NOBUS and they like those things. So, Tor is exceptional in the sense that it's unlikely to get strong, legal or technical attack... destructive attack... by U.S. government's scariest. Less, but some, risk for its developers as well. Another background is U.S. legal system. Ours is an adversarial system where anything you say to cops can be ignored or used against you as highest form of eyewitness testimony (confession) for conviction. What you say that assures innocence is hearsay and tossed out. Feds and prosecutors can use any number of lies and scams... including fake jobs or deals... to trick you into confession. The result is that around 97% never make it to trial: plea bargained as they appear to have no hope of winning. Prosecutors especially like to make severe examples out of hackers with Aaron Schwartz a recent example. Defense attorneys advice: never talk to the police or consent to searchers. Repeatedly ask for lawyer. So, we have a woman... idk her so going by the article... that works on Tor project or software. Implies she might be a hacker or possess such skills. An organization that absolutely hates hackers, activists, and Tor contacts her needing help. She and her lawyer agree to meet them to see what's up but they want her alone. They try to contact her directly despite her insistence on a lawyer. At this point, it's either a legitimate request for assistance on a case or they're building a case against her while trying for an early confession or strong evidence using a common tactic. She can't know since they won't tell her. And can legally lie. She decided to flee to Germany. They'll at least have to present some evidence to get her extradited. She feels she might avoid the NSL's or any forced backdoors over in Germany. She was also going to go over there anyway. So, that's her decision. Now, it might be a bad idea. One, if FBI's interest was good or small bad, her running to another country just put her on a bad list they keep. Two, running when cops show up indicates guilt to many judges and juries. Three, any protections she has if FBI or NSA target her within American jurisdiction disappeared the moment she left. She can now be targeted by German authorities, NSA, CIA, and Army. It's unlikely outside of electronic eavesdropping or extradition given what I said about Tor being special. So, likely outcomes are that they'll ignore her or we'll find out what they're wanting with higher odds of conviction if it's a charge since she fled. That's the situation as I see it after studying these organizations for a long time. I'm also operating with very limited information about her and her situation. So, I only have so much confidence in the conclusions.