6 ms·

IMO, The tech industry has a huge alcohol problem in general. It's not uncommon for even largeish companies to have beer kegs and frequent happy hours. Just re

by grishas 10y ago

IMO, The tech industry has a huge alcohol problem in general. It's not uncommon for even largeish companies to have beer kegs and frequent happy hours. Just recently we had a team event that revolved around alcohol, a mixology class. Although attendance wasn't mandatory, it wasn't exactly optional either. So there was a lot of awkwardness considering a number of people on our team were non-drinking muslims, 1 person was pregnant, and several others just don't drink. This creates an exclusionary sort of culture, and as one of my coworkers said it "I don't really want to be forced to go to the bar with my middle aged male colleagues". If you think about it, it does seem a bit creepy. Other industries have moved on from this sort of model. Sure, there still can be alcohol at events and the occasional BBQ with beer or happy hour, but they have strict policies about returning to work after consuming alcohol, and alcohol is not the main focus of the event. I take full advantage of the beer keg at our office, but if it went away I certainly wouldn't be upset. I'd just do what I used to do, and go to the bar after work with coworkers who want to go.

fleitz 10y ago
I don't work at vegan companies, or non-profits, their cultures aren't compatible with me. However, I wouldn't go around saying they have a "smug problem" that's their culture and their welcome to it, the moment I want to work at those cultures I'll either accept the conflict or do as the Romans do. What is assholish is to insist that everyone else change what they enjoy just because you don't like it.
- cname 10y ago
  Who are you responding to? I can't see where anyone is insisting that everyone else should change.
  - fleitz 10y ago
    Generally when highlighting problems, you want them to change... I mean who is like "Oh you have a drinking problem, just keep drinking, it's fine, I dunno why I even brought it up" I've been around alcoholics, one night I bought a case of beer and had a couple beers while coding, then I got a talk from my girlfriend in AA about how drinking alone is a sign of alcoholism. Startups don't have a drinking problem, alcoholics have a self-control problem.
    - paulv 10y ago
      It is not a self control problem. Addiction is a disease.
awinder 10y ago
What does "it wasn't exactly optional either" mean? For whatever it's worth, Mixology course sounds terrible even as someone who partakes in alcohol. "Other industries have moved on from this sort of model" Source? I've worked for a few corps outside of strict tech focus and that was not my experience. What's the end-goal of this anyways? You can't moderate social interactions, so if your company stops doing alcohol-related events, your teams are almost certainly still going to go to happy hours. I get that this would be a problem if every corporate event solely revolved around getting rip-roaringly drunk, and that would be needlessly exclusionary, but I also doubt that's the reality outside of some really fringe cases. Although maybe that is how it really goes down, and I've just had a sheltered workplace experience
- grishas 10y ago
  "It wasn't exactly optional" was that there was an implied request that everyone would attend. It went on everyone's calendars and was during work hours, not after. I'm not arguing alcohol should be removed from office functions. I'm saying [a] they shouldn't be the focus and [b] maybe we don't need to have fridges of beer where it is acceptable to grab one and go back to your desk. My wife's company (a nationwide outdoor retailer) does have alcohol occasionally at events, but those are semi-regular BBQs at the end of the day, and are absolutely optional. My friends work in healthcare where there is zero alcohol. Other friends work in the government, also zero alcohol. My mother works for a shipping company, also no alcohol on premises. In fact, outside of tech no-one I know has alcohol kept on premises.
  - awinder 10y ago
    So if you're saying that alcohol maybe doesn't belong in the physical workplace, then I totally agree and see your point completely :-)
300bps 10y ago
I haven't eaten meat in 29 years. I don't get offended when I go to work events where meat is served or even offered as a centerpiece of the event like at a pig roast.
- startling 10y ago
  Sounds like the more apt comparison would be having a mandatory barbecue class during work hours.
gaius 10y ago
If it's OK in your company to disparage people based on their age and gender, then alcohol is not your main problem.

by grishas 10y ago

fleitz 10y ago

I don't work at vegan companies, or non-profits, their cultures aren't compatible with me. However, I wouldn't go around saying they have a "smug problem" that's their culture and their welcome to it, the moment I want to work at those cultures I'll either accept the conflict or do as the Romans do. What is assholish is to insist that everyone else change what they enjoy just because you don't like it.

cname 10y ago
Who are you responding to? I can't see where anyone is insisting that everyone else should change.
- fleitz 10y ago
  Generally when highlighting problems, you want them to change... I mean who is like "Oh you have a drinking problem, just keep drinking, it's fine, I dunno why I even brought it up" I've been around alcoholics, one night I bought a case of beer and had a couple beers while coding, then I got a talk from my girlfriend in AA about how drinking alone is a sign of alcoholism. Startups don't have a drinking problem, alcoholics have a self-control problem.
  - paulv 10y ago
    It is not a self control problem. Addiction is a disease.

awinder 10y ago

What does "it wasn't exactly optional either" mean? For whatever it's worth, Mixology course sounds terrible even as someone who partakes in alcohol. "Other industries have moved on from this sort of model" Source? I've worked for a few corps outside of strict tech focus and that was not my experience. What's the end-goal of this anyways? You can't moderate social interactions, so if your company stops doing alcohol-related events, your teams are almost certainly still going to go to happy hours. I get that this would be a problem if every corporate event solely revolved around getting rip-roaringly drunk, and that would be needlessly exclusionary, but I also doubt that's the reality outside of some really fringe cases. Although maybe that is how it really goes down, and I've just had a sheltered workplace experience

grishas 10y ago
"It wasn't exactly optional" was that there was an implied request that everyone would attend. It went on everyone's calendars and was during work hours, not after. I'm not arguing alcohol should be removed from office functions. I'm saying [a] they shouldn't be the focus and [b] maybe we don't need to have fridges of beer where it is acceptable to grab one and go back to your desk. My wife's company (a nationwide outdoor retailer) does have alcohol occasionally at events, but those are semi-regular BBQs at the end of the day, and are absolutely optional. My friends work in healthcare where there is zero alcohol. Other friends work in the government, also zero alcohol. My mother works for a shipping company, also no alcohol on premises. In fact, outside of tech no-one I know has alcohol kept on premises.
- awinder 10y ago
  So if you're saying that alcohol maybe doesn't belong in the physical workplace, then I totally agree and see your point completely :-)

300bps 10y ago

I haven't eaten meat in 29 years. I don't get offended when I go to work events where meat is served or even offered as a centerpiece of the event like at a pig roast.

startling 10y ago
Sounds like the more apt comparison would be having a mandatory barbecue class during work hours.

gaius 10y ago

If it's OK in your company to disparage people based on their age and gender, then alcohol is not your main problem.