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Hi, I work on the streaming algorithms at Netflix. You are correct that throughput variability matters a lot as well. The trouble is that the variability is s

Hi, I work on the streaming algorithms at Netflix. You are correct that throughput variability matters a lot as well. The trouble is that the variability is somewhat unpredictable (at least, with our methods so far). And you're also right that we view the "dynamic quality adjustment" as a feature! Without it, we wouldn't be able to serve both 0.5Mbps connections and 50Mbps connections seamlessly. But we don't like those sudden quality drops, either. We track how often that occurs, as well as how often rebuffers occur, and we work to eliminate both. We use large scale A/B testing to measure improvements in the field. If it's been a while since you tried it, I humbly suggest you consider trying it again. We've made a lot of progress. If anyone is interested in working on this problem, we're currently hiring engineers on the Streaming Algorithms team with a focus on mobile. https://jobs.netflix.com/jobs/860465 https://jobs.netflix.com/jobs/860465

IgorPartola 10y ago
Since I have you here, can I ask a random question? My kids love Puffin Rock, and it's the only show that I would have issues streaming. It would start out fine, but a few minutes into it start buffering and would take minutes; resume for a bit, then do the same thing. When this happened I could switch to any other Netflix show or movie and it worked perfectly fine. When the kids whined, I'd switch back to Puffin Rock and the problem would persist. So my question is: is it possible that either some shows are encoded differently so my player had trouble with it? Or is it that specific content was being messed with by my ISP? The players in question were Roku 2 and 3, and my ISP is Charter (business plan). I haven't tried this in a few months since it got really annoying, but can try again if it helps.
- RKoutnik 10y ago
  Another Netflix engineer here - have you tried with something not popular? It may be that the other shows you checked were cached via OpenConnect but Puffin Rock wasn't. My email is my username at netflix.com. If you can send me the email address connected to your account, I can see that your problem gets to the right people. (Disclaimer: I'm not on the OC or related teams directly)
  - IgorPartola 10y ago
    I'll give it another try and if it still is an issue I'll get in touch. Thanks!
    - chinathrow 10y ago
      You could also try it on a PC/laptop and then check other streaming servers (right CDN column) by pressing Ctrl-Alt-Shift-s. Or check the current stream quality / buffer state with Ctrl-Alt-Shift-d.
  - gommm 10y ago
    I also have a question. According to fast.com, my connection is 270 mbp/s (which jives with the official 500 mbps I'm getting). Yet, I've noticed that on chrome on mac, when I launch a new show, it often starts at a very low bitrate and then gradually switch to a higher bitrate. The problem is that this happen on every episodes. One workaround is using the ctrl-option-shift S combination and manually set the bitrate to the highest settings but it's still a bit annoying.
    - lstamour 10y ago
      Have you tried the "Adjust your Netflix playback settings" advice at https://help.netflix.com/en/node/11559 https://help.netflix.com/en/node/11559 ? Not that I haven't seen this adaptive stream behaviour, but I find it affects my mobile devices (like iPads) far more than on a wired, desktop computer.
      - gommm 10y ago
        Hi, good point. I'll try that. Thanks!
grahamburger 10y ago
I'm working with some ISPs who are looking to understand how well NetFlix (and other services) are working on their networks in an attempt to improve service to their customers. These are small-ish ISPs, and I'm trying to help them move from guessing how well their customers are working based on high level traffic graphs to something more reliable and robust. I'd love to chat about this if you're available, email is in my profile.
atonse 10y ago
Dammit this is why I frequent hacker news. More often then not, you get the person actually working on a technology in question to respond because they're also reading hacker news.
keane 10y ago
I'm frequently on a network that performs below 2.0 Mbps (with fast.com recording it as 2.0 Mbps, 1.6 Mbps, and 900 Kbps), generally with around 20% packet loss on the third hop (Verizon, now Frontier). Netflix streams perfectly. It is astounding. No one else comes close. Amazon Video and YouTube work around half of the time, with rebuffering; video from anyone else—Vimeo, Apple, and any network's player included—is basically non-functional. So, thank you all so much for excelling at what you do! It's very appreciated!
mamcx 10y ago
Ok, but I think the parent comment say (also, I agree) that a user could be happy to wait if that meant to hold the quality. I was recently in a hotel, and despite I set the reproduction to "medium" I still see a lot of blurry content. I try waiting and that not fix it. Instead, with popcorn time I let the show downloading for a while and it was ok.

IgorPartola 10y ago

Since I have you here, can I ask a random question? My kids love Puffin Rock, and it's the only show that I would have issues streaming. It would start out fine, but a few minutes into it start buffering and would take minutes; resume for a bit, then do the same thing. When this happened I could switch to any other Netflix show or movie and it worked perfectly fine. When the kids whined, I'd switch back to Puffin Rock and the problem would persist. So my question is: is it possible that either some shows are encoded differently so my player had trouble with it? Or is it that specific content was being messed with by my ISP? The players in question were Roku 2 and 3, and my ISP is Charter (business plan). I haven't tried this in a few months since it got really annoying, but can try again if it helps.

RKoutnik 10y ago
Another Netflix engineer here - have you tried with something not popular? It may be that the other shows you checked were cached via OpenConnect but Puffin Rock wasn't. My email is my username at netflix.com. If you can send me the email address connected to your account, I can see that your problem gets to the right people. (Disclaimer: I'm not on the OC or related teams directly)
- IgorPartola 10y ago
  I'll give it another try and if it still is an issue I'll get in touch. Thanks!
  - chinathrow 10y ago
    You could also try it on a PC/laptop and then check other streaming servers (right CDN column) by pressing Ctrl-Alt-Shift-s. Or check the current stream quality / buffer state with Ctrl-Alt-Shift-d.
- gommm 10y ago
  I also have a question. According to fast.com, my connection is 270 mbp/s (which jives with the official 500 mbps I'm getting). Yet, I've noticed that on chrome on mac, when I launch a new show, it often starts at a very low bitrate and then gradually switch to a higher bitrate. The problem is that this happen on every episodes. One workaround is using the ctrl-option-shift S combination and manually set the bitrate to the highest settings but it's still a bit annoying.
  - lstamour 10y ago
    Have you tried the "Adjust your Netflix playback settings" advice at https://help.netflix.com/en/node/11559 https://help.netflix.com/en/node/11559 ? Not that I haven't seen this adaptive stream behaviour, but I find it affects my mobile devices (like iPads) far more than on a wired, desktop computer.
    - gommm 10y ago
      Hi, good point. I'll try that. Thanks!

grahamburger 10y ago

I'm working with some ISPs who are looking to understand how well NetFlix (and other services) are working on their networks in an attempt to improve service to their customers. These are small-ish ISPs, and I'm trying to help them move from guessing how well their customers are working based on high level traffic graphs to something more reliable and robust. I'd love to chat about this if you're available, email is in my profile.

atonse 10y ago

Dammit this is why I frequent hacker news. More often then not, you get the person actually working on a technology in question to respond because they're also reading hacker news.

keane 10y ago

I'm frequently on a network that performs below 2.0 Mbps (with fast.com recording it as 2.0 Mbps, 1.6 Mbps, and 900 Kbps), generally with around 20% packet loss on the third hop (Verizon, now Frontier). Netflix streams perfectly. It is astounding. No one else comes close. Amazon Video and YouTube work around half of the time, with rebuffering; video from anyone else—Vimeo, Apple, and any network's player included—is basically non-functional. So, thank you all so much for excelling at what you do! It's very appreciated!

mamcx 10y ago

Ok, but I think the parent comment say (also, I agree) that a user could be happy to wait if that meant to hold the quality. I was recently in a hotel, and despite I set the reproduction to "medium" I still see a lot of blurry content. I try waiting and that not fix it. Instead, with popcorn time I let the show downloading for a while and it was ok.