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I loathe telling people I'm a vegetarian for this reason. People think that my decision to not eat meat is an attack on _them_ and not a choice I've made for my

I loathe telling people I'm a vegetarian for this reason. People think that my decision to not eat meat is an attack on _them_ and not a choice I've made for myself. Edit: a word

st3v3r 10y ago
Well, many people have had experiences with the zealot vegetarian/vegan who will attack them for not following their choices.
- steveklabnik 10y ago
  My experience is that there are very, very few of those kinds of people. I do not practice veganism anymore, but the number of pushy vegans I saw was vastly, vastly outnumbered by the number of non-vegans who felt the need to profess how moral their own decisions around food were. Person: Whatcha' getting? Me: I'm not totally sure. Person: How about the steak? Me: No, I don't really want that. (oh no.) Person: Really? It's supposed to be really good. Me: I hear that, but I don't think so, not this time. Person: Why not? Me: Well, I don't eat meat at all, actually. Person: Oh yeah? Are you vegetarian or vegan? Me: Vegan. Person: Oh, I'm so sorry to hear that. The steaks is gonna be so great. Don't you just hate how pushy vegans are? They're always going on and on and on about... This story happened over and over and over and over and over and over and over to me. It was the same with not drinking, too. "Why did you only get a Pepsi?"
enraged_camel 10y ago
To be fair, a ton of vegetarians are smug, moralizing douchebags who do attack others on their decision to eat meat. There's a humorous saying: "How do tell if someone is vegetarian/vegan? Don't worry: they will let you know." There was a girl in my dorm during freshman year of college who would literally start sobbing if she saw anyone eat meat.
- delecti 10y ago
  The vast majority of people who don't eat meat honestly don't care about anyone else's dietary choices. The reason it comes up is because most people assume everyone eats meat. If I was never offered meat, I'd never have to tell anyone that I'm not going to eat it. There are always going to be outliers like that girl, but compare the relative frequency of seeing people like that vs the absurd number of bacon products (jelly, soap, toothpaste).
  - enraged_camel 10y ago
    The girl I mentioned was an outlier, but hardly the only vegetarian/vegan I've known who always broached the subject of "meat ethics" at every opportunity. People like that might make up a small portion of the vegetarian/vegan population, but they are a very vocal minority, which skews perspectives.
- jcoffland 10y ago
  This is mainly a problem among the very young and very idealistic. As you pointed out you had this experience in your dorm. I also had similar experiences with zelots in college, much less so later in life.
- startling 10y ago
  I see a lot more smug, moralizing meat-eaters in this thread than vegetarians. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
munificent 10y ago
People are social creatures and one aspect of that is that we feel a natural, slight constant pressure to harmonize our mental states with the people around us. Diversity is good, of course, but we experience dissonance in outlook as an uncomfortable friction. When together, we always seek common ground to focus on. When someone says "I don't drink"—an entirely valid and acceptable choice!—at a point in time where we've already established that someone else in the group does, it draws attention to that disharmony. It's not that not drinking is the bad thing, it's just the delta between that and the previously accepted reality that another in the group does. You've subtracted some territory from the common ground. To get a sense of this, consider an imaginary scene: A group of people are standing around trying to decide where to go out. The first few people suggest a place that is does not serve alcohol and that they are OK with that since they don't drink anyway. The next person mentions that they do drink. In this case, it's now the drinker who looks flatfooted, at least as I imagine the scene. To me, then, this indicates that it's not being a non-drinker that's socially awkward, just that expressing a divergent preference that is. Fortunately, most people have tact and can gracefully handle a little dissonance here regardless of which preference comes up first. Certainly, in the groups I frequent, we try very hard to make non-drinkers and drinkers feel comfortable and included regardless of who makes the first move. The way this tact gets expressed is through plausible deniability. We express our preferences as vague or potential so that if a clashing preference comes up, it's easy to retreat from ours and get back to common ground. That's why, at least in American speech, people say things like, "I could go for __." "I would be up for __." "__ sounds good." All of those are softly worded enough that they can be amended later to reach consensus without losing face.
bpyne 10y ago
I'm omnivorous. I can't even imagine people having an issue with being vegetarian now. It's just so common. Around my area, finding out a person is vegetarian leads to an exchange of recipes.
cushychicken 10y ago
Reminds me of that quote from William Gibson: "Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self esteem, first make sure you are not, in fact, just surrounded by assholes."

I loathe telling people I'm a vegetarian for this reason. People think that my decision to not eat meat is an attack on _them_ and not a choice I've made for myself. Edit: a word

st3v3r 10y ago

Well, many people have had experiences with the zealot vegetarian/vegan who will attack them for not following their choices.

steveklabnik 10y ago
My experience is that there are very, very few of those kinds of people. I do not practice veganism anymore, but the number of pushy vegans I saw was vastly, vastly outnumbered by the number of non-vegans who felt the need to profess how moral their own decisions around food were. Person: Whatcha' getting? Me: I'm not totally sure. Person: How about the steak? Me: No, I don't really want that. (oh no.) Person: Really? It's supposed to be really good. Me: I hear that, but I don't think so, not this time. Person: Why not? Me: Well, I don't eat meat at all, actually. Person: Oh yeah? Are you vegetarian or vegan? Me: Vegan. Person: Oh, I'm so sorry to hear that. The steaks is gonna be so great. Don't you just hate how pushy vegans are? They're always going on and on and on about... This story happened over and over and over and over and over and over and over to me. It was the same with not drinking, too. "Why did you only get a Pepsi?"

enraged_camel 10y ago

To be fair, a ton of vegetarians are smug, moralizing douchebags who do attack others on their decision to eat meat. There's a humorous saying: "How do tell if someone is vegetarian/vegan? Don't worry: they will let you know." There was a girl in my dorm during freshman year of college who would literally start sobbing if she saw anyone eat meat.

delecti 10y ago
The vast majority of people who don't eat meat honestly don't care about anyone else's dietary choices. The reason it comes up is because most people assume everyone eats meat. If I was never offered meat, I'd never have to tell anyone that I'm not going to eat it. There are always going to be outliers like that girl, but compare the relative frequency of seeing people like that vs the absurd number of bacon products (jelly, soap, toothpaste).
- enraged_camel 10y ago
  The girl I mentioned was an outlier, but hardly the only vegetarian/vegan I've known who always broached the subject of "meat ethics" at every opportunity. People like that might make up a small portion of the vegetarian/vegan population, but they are a very vocal minority, which skews perspectives.
jcoffland 10y ago
This is mainly a problem among the very young and very idealistic. As you pointed out you had this experience in your dorm. I also had similar experiences with zelots in college, much less so later in life.
startling 10y ago
I see a lot more smug, moralizing meat-eaters in this thread than vegetarians. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

munificent 10y ago

People are social creatures and one aspect of that is that we feel a natural, slight constant pressure to harmonize our mental states with the people around us. Diversity is good, of course, but we experience dissonance in outlook as an uncomfortable friction. When together, we always seek common ground to focus on. When someone says "I don't drink"—an entirely valid and acceptable choice!—at a point in time where we've already established that someone else in the group does, it draws attention to that disharmony. It's not that not drinking is the bad thing, it's just the delta between that and the previously accepted reality that another in the group does. You've subtracted some territory from the common ground. To get a sense of this, consider an imaginary scene: A group of people are standing around trying to decide where to go out. The first few people suggest a place that is does not serve alcohol and that they are OK with that since they don't drink anyway. The next person mentions that they do drink. In this case, it's now the drinker who looks flatfooted, at least as I imagine the scene. To me, then, this indicates that it's not being a non-drinker that's socially awkward, just that expressing a divergent preference that is. Fortunately, most people have tact and can gracefully handle a little dissonance here regardless of which preference comes up first. Certainly, in the groups I frequent, we try very hard to make non-drinkers and drinkers feel comfortable and included regardless of who makes the first move. The way this tact gets expressed is through plausible deniability. We express our preferences as vague or potential so that if a clashing preference comes up, it's easy to retreat from ours and get back to common ground. That's why, at least in American speech, people say things like, "I could go for __." "I would be up for __." "__ sounds good." All of those are softly worded enough that they can be amended later to reach consensus without losing face.

bpyne 10y ago

I'm omnivorous. I can't even imagine people having an issue with being vegetarian now. It's just so common. Around my area, finding out a person is vegetarian leads to an exchange of recipes.

cushychicken 10y ago

Reminds me of that quote from William Gibson: "Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self esteem, first make sure you are not, in fact, just surrounded by assholes."