7 ms·

I've had a tech who came to deal with a reported issue I was having tell me to test on a specific Time Warner Cable speed test. He then got upset/flustered whe

by Vraxx 10y ago

I've had a tech who came to deal with a reported issue I was having tell me to test on a specific Time Warner Cable speed test. He then got upset/flustered when I used a different speed test to demonstrate that the issue was still present. I had to explain that I use the internet connection I was paying for to do things on domains that aren't owned and optimized by TWC.

jmtulloss 10y ago
To give the tech the benefit of the doubt, it's possible that he just isn't certain he can trust other speed tests. They may point to issues beyond his control.
- Vraxx 10y ago
  Yeah, it's tough to find the line of when to stop giving the benefit of the doubt though. I was using speedtest.net at the time, which is pretty well known and widely used. I had also had multiple visits recently regarding the issue that still had not been resolved, and so my impatience made the decision for me.
  - ckuehl 10y ago
    For what it's worth, ISPs are definitely shaping traffic to try to game results on public speed tests. I had an issue with Comcast last year where I would have large latency spikes for ~2 hours every night, and speedtest.net always remained at normal latency: https://i.fluffy.cc/kNCxLMbkF2wx7NHFJxbzcgX35Bsb5nvl.png https://i.fluffy.cc/kNCxLMbkF2wx7NHFJxbzcgX35Bsb5nvl.png I couldn't find any non-speedtest sites where my latency was less than 100ms, but Comcast's own speed test, several other public speed tests, speedtest.net, and even ookla.com (the company behind speedtest.net) were perfect (the ~20ms you see on the graph).
    - Vraxx 10y ago
      Ugh. That's terrible. I kinda figured that it's an eventual conclusion though, so when speedtest.net starts giving me contradictory results to what I am experiencing I have a pretty good idea of what the check first. On a separate note, what tool did you use to create that graph?
      - icelancer 10y ago
        Looks like just redirecting a recurring ping command output to a text file then graphing the results in google docs or any other spreadsheet. I've done the same to shame Comcast.
        cfallin 10y ago
        Ooh, a chance to plug a toy side-project! I wrote "pingd" [1] to ping an address continuously and dump (timestamp, latency, dropped) tuples to a SQLite database, and also report results (tables only, no plots) via a web interface. Slightly less hacky than "ping host > logfile". Also to shame Comcast. [1] https://github.com/cfallin/pingd https://github.com/cfallin/pingd (in Rust, requires liboping)
    - mcpherrinm 10y ago
      Speedtest.net and other speedtests often choose the speedtest server that's close to you and has low ping. What you describe is probably congestion in the network somewhere that isn't the last mile. Speed tests aren't a good indicator for any issues occurring anywhere but the last mile, as they won't take the same path with fairly high probability.
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
      - gruez 10y ago
        Given that he has a nice graph with hundreds of data points, I'm guessing he got the ping results from the ping command, not by running the speedtest.net test(which would actually select the lowest ping server)
        mcpherrinm 10y ago
        You're right, though I had assumed he was pinging whatever server speedtest had selected, which may be erronous. Really, my point was that congestion is often localized in a network. The fact that it isn't present in a path doesn't mean it's an ISP gaming speed tests - though perhaps they'd be more keen on peering directly and avoiding congested transit if it makes them look better, and I would absolutely believe that would happen.
        67726e 10y ago
        I think the argument is that the speed tests are testing ideal/non real-world usage. That seems an awful lot like gaming the results. A more realistic, indicative speed test might hit several servers at points around the country, or even world. Most of my internet traffic is not hitting a server on the outskirts of town or in the next small city over.
  - Steko 10y ago
    FWIW I've had TWC phone techs ask me to use speedtest.net by name on a couple occasions.
    - hackney 10y ago
      Just today I switched back to TW from Frontier(FIOS). Using fast gave me more than double the speeds of fios. The tech was super cool and he normally uses speedtest but I told 'em, try fast. Plus now I finally get to use my brandnew surfboard modem and brandnew RT-N66U router.
  - lstyls 10y ago
    I have TWC in Brooklyn and for a while was on the phone with Level 3 support often. Every time they had me use speedtest.net. So even their network engineers trust that site more than their in-house one.
- eeeeeeeeeeeee 10y ago
  I agree to a point. If you use speedtest.net and show several different testing sites and the results are consistent, that should be good evidence. And you need to use a hard-wired connection because a lot of peoples wifi isn't very good.
- Spooky23 10y ago
  Absolutely. The tech has a limited scope and typically doesn't have the ability to escalate engineering issues. You need to keep complaining and Twittering until you get a senior guy. In my case, the TWC guys replaced every piece of coax and splitter from my cable modem and TVs to the pole. Turned out the issue was the changed out the cabling on the big avenue near my house and used the wrong grade of cable. I called the TWC state lobbyist and told him I represented 150 homeowners who were filing a complaint with the regulator and the city council just head of their franchise agreement renewal. Trucks were replacing those lines the next morning.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - basseq 10y ago
    You are a hero! > In my case, the TWC guys replaced every piece of coax and splitter from my cable modem and TVs to the pole. I am surprised by the coax inside the house. Usually they'll help if they can, but your house wiring is your problem. (Unless their solution is stapling a coax cable to your baseboard.)
    - Spooky23 10y ago
      Thanks! :) The techs were observing erratic behavior, but there wasn't any evidence of bad cabling -- I had actually replaced it about 3 years before. Also, my wiring is low-complexity... I terminate everything in the basement, and have 1 TV. The TV cable ends about 6 feet from the cable box. Even in other circumstances, the techs are pretty good.
xanderstrike 10y ago
On the other hand, when I worked at Verizon we used SpeedTest.net because our in-house tool often reported speeds slower than users would experience/
JensRex 10y ago
Former telephone technician(* ) here. What I'm interested in is the connection from your home to our PoP. Anything beyond that is irelevant to me. I don't know why he would trust customer equipment to run the test. I used one of these. http://www.viavisolutions.com/en-us/products/network-test-and-certification/copper-dsl-wifi-and-broadband/smartclass-tps http://www.viavisolutions.com/en-us/products/network-test-an... (* )I'm not sure what the english word is for that.
- hueving 10y ago
  >Former telephone technician(* ) here. What I'm interested in is the connection from your home to our PoP. That's only relevant if the complaint is about the connection from your home to the PoP. If the technician was sent out to solve an issue with the Internet being slow in general, he/she needs to actually find what the bottleneck is, not call it a day when some traffic makes it to a PoP.
  - toast0 10y ago
    OTOH - the technician doesn't need to be at your house if you have a good connection to the PoP. Field technicians may not be trained in troubleshooting network beyond the PoP and likely don't have the right access to tools to make the changes that need to be made.
  - walrus01 10y ago
    It's a stupid idea to do a truck roll to resolve upstream peering/transit/congestion issues with the IP network. The technician's job is to diagnose OSI layer 1/2 issues to your local DSLAM or CMTS.
    - dsl 10y ago
      Yet broadband providers continue to do it.
      - walrus01 10y ago
        Usually because a customer can't properly articulate on the phone what's wrong with their connection. Last mile broadband providers want to do as much as possible to avoid a site visit to a home. Unless they're charging $95 per visit one technician visit for 30 minutes can eat up all the profit from that customer for an entire year.

by Vraxx 10y ago

jmtulloss 10y ago

To give the tech the benefit of the doubt, it's possible that he just isn't certain he can trust other speed tests. They may point to issues beyond his control.

Vraxx 10y ago
Yeah, it's tough to find the line of when to stop giving the benefit of the doubt though. I was using speedtest.net at the time, which is pretty well known and widely used. I had also had multiple visits recently regarding the issue that still had not been resolved, and so my impatience made the decision for me.
- ckuehl 10y ago
  For what it's worth, ISPs are definitely shaping traffic to try to game results on public speed tests. I had an issue with Comcast last year where I would have large latency spikes for ~2 hours every night, and speedtest.net always remained at normal latency: https://i.fluffy.cc/kNCxLMbkF2wx7NHFJxbzcgX35Bsb5nvl.png https://i.fluffy.cc/kNCxLMbkF2wx7NHFJxbzcgX35Bsb5nvl.png I couldn't find any non-speedtest sites where my latency was less than 100ms, but Comcast's own speed test, several other public speed tests, speedtest.net, and even ookla.com (the company behind speedtest.net) were perfect (the ~20ms you see on the graph).
  - Vraxx 10y ago
    Ugh. That's terrible. I kinda figured that it's an eventual conclusion though, so when speedtest.net starts giving me contradictory results to what I am experiencing I have a pretty good idea of what the check first. On a separate note, what tool did you use to create that graph?
    - icelancer 10y ago
      Looks like just redirecting a recurring ping command output to a text file then graphing the results in google docs or any other spreadsheet. I've done the same to shame Comcast.
      - cfallin 10y ago
        Ooh, a chance to plug a toy side-project! I wrote "pingd" [1] to ping an address continuously and dump (timestamp, latency, dropped) tuples to a SQLite database, and also report results (tables only, no plots) via a web interface. Slightly less hacky than "ping host > logfile". Also to shame Comcast. [1] https://github.com/cfallin/pingd https://github.com/cfallin/pingd (in Rust, requires liboping)
  - mcpherrinm 10y ago
    Speedtest.net and other speedtests often choose the speedtest server that's close to you and has low ping. What you describe is probably congestion in the network somewhere that isn't the last mile. Speed tests aren't a good indicator for any issues occurring anywhere but the last mile, as they won't take the same path with fairly high probability.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - gruez 10y ago
      Given that he has a nice graph with hundreds of data points, I'm guessing he got the ping results from the ping command, not by running the speedtest.net test(which would actually select the lowest ping server)
      - mcpherrinm 10y ago
        You're right, though I had assumed he was pinging whatever server speedtest had selected, which may be erronous. Really, my point was that congestion is often localized in a network. The fact that it isn't present in a path doesn't mean it's an ISP gaming speed tests - though perhaps they'd be more keen on peering directly and avoiding congested transit if it makes them look better, and I would absolutely believe that would happen.
        67726e 10y ago
        I think the argument is that the speed tests are testing ideal/non real-world usage. That seems an awful lot like gaming the results. A more realistic, indicative speed test might hit several servers at points around the country, or even world. Most of my internet traffic is not hitting a server on the outskirts of town or in the next small city over.
- Steko 10y ago
  FWIW I've had TWC phone techs ask me to use speedtest.net by name on a couple occasions.
  - hackney 10y ago
    Just today I switched back to TW from Frontier(FIOS). Using fast gave me more than double the speeds of fios. The tech was super cool and he normally uses speedtest but I told 'em, try fast. Plus now I finally get to use my brandnew surfboard modem and brandnew RT-N66U router.
- lstyls 10y ago
  I have TWC in Brooklyn and for a while was on the phone with Level 3 support often. Every time they had me use speedtest.net. So even their network engineers trust that site more than their in-house one.
eeeeeeeeeeeee 10y ago
I agree to a point. If you use speedtest.net and show several different testing sites and the results are consistent, that should be good evidence. And you need to use a hard-wired connection because a lot of peoples wifi isn't very good.
Spooky23 10y ago
Absolutely. The tech has a limited scope and typically doesn't have the ability to escalate engineering issues. You need to keep complaining and Twittering until you get a senior guy. In my case, the TWC guys replaced every piece of coax and splitter from my cable modem and TVs to the pole. Turned out the issue was the changed out the cabling on the big avenue near my house and used the wrong grade of cable. I called the TWC state lobbyist and told him I represented 150 homeowners who were filing a complaint with the regulator and the city council just head of their franchise agreement renewal. Trucks were replacing those lines the next morning.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- basseq 10y ago
  You are a hero! > In my case, the TWC guys replaced every piece of coax and splitter from my cable modem and TVs to the pole. I am surprised by the coax inside the house. Usually they'll help if they can, but your house wiring is your problem. (Unless their solution is stapling a coax cable to your baseboard.)
  - Spooky23 10y ago
    Thanks! :) The techs were observing erratic behavior, but there wasn't any evidence of bad cabling -- I had actually replaced it about 3 years before. Also, my wiring is low-complexity... I terminate everything in the basement, and have 1 TV. The TV cable ends about 6 feet from the cable box. Even in other circumstances, the techs are pretty good.

xanderstrike 10y ago

On the other hand, when I worked at Verizon we used SpeedTest.net because our in-house tool often reported speeds slower than users would experience/

JensRex 10y ago

Former telephone technician(* ) here. What I'm interested in is the connection from your home to our PoP. Anything beyond that is irelevant to me. I don't know why he would trust customer equipment to run the test. I used one of these. http://www.viavisolutions.com/en-us/products/network-test-and-certification/copper-dsl-wifi-and-broadband/smartclass-tps http://www.viavisolutions.com/en-us/products/network-test-an... (* )I'm not sure what the english word is for that.

hueving 10y ago
>Former telephone technician(* ) here. What I'm interested in is the connection from your home to our PoP. That's only relevant if the complaint is about the connection from your home to the PoP. If the technician was sent out to solve an issue with the Internet being slow in general, he/she needs to actually find what the bottleneck is, not call it a day when some traffic makes it to a PoP.
- toast0 10y ago
  OTOH - the technician doesn't need to be at your house if you have a good connection to the PoP. Field technicians may not be trained in troubleshooting network beyond the PoP and likely don't have the right access to tools to make the changes that need to be made.
- walrus01 10y ago
  It's a stupid idea to do a truck roll to resolve upstream peering/transit/congestion issues with the IP network. The technician's job is to diagnose OSI layer 1/2 issues to your local DSLAM or CMTS.
  - dsl 10y ago
    Yet broadband providers continue to do it.
    - walrus01 10y ago
      Usually because a customer can't properly articulate on the phone what's wrong with their connection. Last mile broadband providers want to do as much as possible to avoid a site visit to a home. Unless they're charging $95 per visit one technician visit for 30 minutes can eat up all the profit from that customer for an entire year.