4 ms·

This is total FUD. (EDIT ND: because thoses lines of code are already out of every discussions to be held in the current retrial, they are already ruled out the

by Twisell 10y ago

This is total FUD. (EDIT ND: because thoses lines of code are already out of every discussions to be held in the current retrial, they are already ruled out the only remaining question is fair use) This trial should now be entirely focused about wether Google "stole" the API SSO under a fair use exception and shall be relieved. The preceding phases of this case already determined that: -thoses a nines lines are not significant -Google used API SSO without consent of Sun/Oracle and without any license -API SSO of Java are indeed copyrightable (this was ruled in appeal and confirmed by the Supreme Court) This retrial is only happening because judge Aslup did a half baked first trial and the appeal court returned him the case after invalidating his bad ruling about non-copyrightability of API. For thoses who seek deep insights about this case, take a look at Florian Mueller's blog: http://www.fosspatents.com http://www.fosspatents.com He pretty accurately predict the reversal of the first ruling against the opinion of many mainstream analysts. And he frequently publish link to public court documents so you can make up you mind by yourself. EDIT: If you downvote please argument, otherwise it's very suspicious. I'm totally open to discussion but I can't fight against a hidden lobbyst activity that systmatically downvote diverging views. EDIT2: I edited the first sentence to be more explicative. I've seen I got some upvote, but silent bashing seems to continue. Again, please argument! I don't get why the name of this blogger unleash so much passions while he actually always publish documents and link to actual rulings. Yes he clearly don't write as elegantly as some, and yes he's by now pretty opinionated but why such much hate?

DannyBee 10y ago
This is some impressive astroturfing right here. You even got in a link to a guy paid by oracle to comment on the case!
- Twisell 10y ago
  I didn't want to citation here but here is what he wrote about your point. Again, if you have proof he is a liar share it no problem, but please don't blindly accept and repeat mainstream opinion without seeking information by yourself first. http://www.fosspatents.com/2016/05/the-biggest-problem-for-oracle-v-google.html?m=1 http://www.fosspatents.com/2016/05/the-biggest-problem-for-o... Quoting Mueller Please bear with me while I'm repeating the following: I haven't done any work for Oracle in quite a while, I have no reason to assume today that I'll ever do any again (I'll release two game apps this year and that's my professional future), and I have taken consistent positions ever since the case started. This lawsuit was filed not long after I had been fighting against Oracle's acquisition of Sun Microsystems on the antitrust front. Despite having embroiled in a bitter fight with Oracle, I realized early on that Oracle had a point here (though I usually like Google a lot, especially Android). I still hold those views even though working with Oracle on standard-essential patent matters is a thing of the past for me. An opinionated, independent view is not "propaganda" by any stretch of the imagination. This blog got copyrightability right when Judge Alsup got it wrong, and three higher judges than Judge Alsup totally agreed with me (and the top U.S. court didn't elect to hear the case in order to disagree). The truth is on my side, not his. And when all is said and done, people will see that this blog also got "fair use" right to a greater extent than he did/does.
  - DannyBee 10y ago
    "I haven't done any work for Oracle in quite a while," AFAIK, he now gets paid by someone oracle pays (and strongly supports oracle), and before that he was getting paid by someone who strongly supports oracle and so didn't need oracle's money. So this is technically accurate but still not what most people would consider being honest. "This lawsuit was filed not long after I had been fighting against Oracle's acquisition of Sun Microsystems on the antitrust front." This i know to be practically false from personal knowledge, having been involved in the review. I'm sure, like the previous statement, there is some crazy view in which it is technically correct but not, again, what most people would consider being honest.
    - Twisell 10y ago
      Clearly he consistently sided with Orcale thought all this case. And I think it's totally ok to consider that he's not independent and very subjective. But by following he's blog since a few years I often found very interesting insights about the trial. And i think it's important sometimes to be open to counterpoints. While he can be very irritating when he touts out loud that he was right against every other analyst... We should conceded that he was remarkably good at predicting the outcome of the appeal. And while i don't agree on him on every points I'm pretty sure that the ruling about copyrightability of API is a very good one and might one day prove beneficial to the FOSS community. People often tends to mix up concept like Free/OpenSource Software and don't really get why licensing published code (even under WTFPL) is very important to keep projects rolling. I give to Mueller that he's probably better than many to understand complexity's of theses matters. On the other side the linked article of this thread is a giant misinformation as it use the most dumb and old argument Oracle used in this trial even thought it already have been ruled out years ago. EDIT: On a side note, I personally use PostgreSQL daily and wont recommend OracleDB to anyone as of nowadays.
      - DannyBee 10y ago
        "hile he can be very irritating when he touts out loud that he was right against every other analyst... We should conceded that he was remarkably good at predicting the outcome of the appeal." I'm not sure what analysts you are talking about. Since the appeal was to the federal circuit, pretty much everyone i'm aware of thought google would lose hard. "And while i don't agree on him on every points I'm pretty sure that the ruling about copyrightability of API is a very good one and might one day prove beneficial to the FOSS community. " We are going to really strongly disagree on that. "I give to Mueller that he's probably better than many to understand complexity's of theses matters." I also see no evidence this is correct either. He pretty much has no insight into the way people work in any real basis, only what he thinks he can sell to people. He has literally no real software experience, he was a writer :)
- throwawaykf05 10y ago
  Says the guy paid by Google. Tell me, when Alsup issued his "name your shills" order, was yours amongst those Google released? I certainly see you (or at least your handle) commenting on various Google-related threads here and on Ars.
- dang 10y ago
  Accusing other users of astroturfing is not allowed on HN. If you think you see genuine abuse, you're welcome to email us (hn@ycombinator.com) so we can investigate. But slinging such accusations to score points in an argument isn't allowed. Usually people do this merely because they don't like someone else's view, and that's not a legitimate move to pull in a discussion here, no matter how wrong someone else is.
  - DannyBee 10y ago
    My apologies

by Twisell 10y ago

DannyBee 10y ago

This is some impressive astroturfing right here. You even got in a link to a guy paid by oracle to comment on the case!

Twisell 10y ago
I didn't want to citation here but here is what he wrote about your point. Again, if you have proof he is a liar share it no problem, but please don't blindly accept and repeat mainstream opinion without seeking information by yourself first. http://www.fosspatents.com/2016/05/the-biggest-problem-for-oracle-v-google.html?m=1 http://www.fosspatents.com/2016/05/the-biggest-problem-for-o... Quoting Mueller Please bear with me while I'm repeating the following: I haven't done any work for Oracle in quite a while, I have no reason to assume today that I'll ever do any again (I'll release two game apps this year and that's my professional future), and I have taken consistent positions ever since the case started. This lawsuit was filed not long after I had been fighting against Oracle's acquisition of Sun Microsystems on the antitrust front. Despite having embroiled in a bitter fight with Oracle, I realized early on that Oracle had a point here (though I usually like Google a lot, especially Android). I still hold those views even though working with Oracle on standard-essential patent matters is a thing of the past for me. An opinionated, independent view is not "propaganda" by any stretch of the imagination. This blog got copyrightability right when Judge Alsup got it wrong, and three higher judges than Judge Alsup totally agreed with me (and the top U.S. court didn't elect to hear the case in order to disagree). The truth is on my side, not his. And when all is said and done, people will see that this blog also got "fair use" right to a greater extent than he did/does.
- DannyBee 10y ago
  "I haven't done any work for Oracle in quite a while," AFAIK, he now gets paid by someone oracle pays (and strongly supports oracle), and before that he was getting paid by someone who strongly supports oracle and so didn't need oracle's money. So this is technically accurate but still not what most people would consider being honest. "This lawsuit was filed not long after I had been fighting against Oracle's acquisition of Sun Microsystems on the antitrust front." This i know to be practically false from personal knowledge, having been involved in the review. I'm sure, like the previous statement, there is some crazy view in which it is technically correct but not, again, what most people would consider being honest.
  - Twisell 10y ago
    Clearly he consistently sided with Orcale thought all this case. And I think it's totally ok to consider that he's not independent and very subjective. But by following he's blog since a few years I often found very interesting insights about the trial. And i think it's important sometimes to be open to counterpoints. While he can be very irritating when he touts out loud that he was right against every other analyst... We should conceded that he was remarkably good at predicting the outcome of the appeal. And while i don't agree on him on every points I'm pretty sure that the ruling about copyrightability of API is a very good one and might one day prove beneficial to the FOSS community. People often tends to mix up concept like Free/OpenSource Software and don't really get why licensing published code (even under WTFPL) is very important to keep projects rolling. I give to Mueller that he's probably better than many to understand complexity's of theses matters. On the other side the linked article of this thread is a giant misinformation as it use the most dumb and old argument Oracle used in this trial even thought it already have been ruled out years ago. EDIT: On a side note, I personally use PostgreSQL daily and wont recommend OracleDB to anyone as of nowadays.
    - DannyBee 10y ago
      "hile he can be very irritating when he touts out loud that he was right against every other analyst... We should conceded that he was remarkably good at predicting the outcome of the appeal." I'm not sure what analysts you are talking about. Since the appeal was to the federal circuit, pretty much everyone i'm aware of thought google would lose hard. "And while i don't agree on him on every points I'm pretty sure that the ruling about copyrightability of API is a very good one and might one day prove beneficial to the FOSS community. " We are going to really strongly disagree on that. "I give to Mueller that he's probably better than many to understand complexity's of theses matters." I also see no evidence this is correct either. He pretty much has no insight into the way people work in any real basis, only what he thinks he can sell to people. He has literally no real software experience, he was a writer :)
throwawaykf05 10y ago
Says the guy paid by Google. Tell me, when Alsup issued his "name your shills" order, was yours amongst those Google released? I certainly see you (or at least your handle) commenting on various Google-related threads here and on Ars.
dang 10y ago
Accusing other users of astroturfing is not allowed on HN. If you think you see genuine abuse, you're welcome to email us (hn@ycombinator.com) so we can investigate. But slinging such accusations to score points in an argument isn't allowed. Usually people do this merely because they don't like someone else's view, and that's not a legitimate move to pull in a discussion here, no matter how wrong someone else is.
- DannyBee 10y ago
  My apologies