7 ms·

HFT is a pretty limited and extreme application case. From what I understand - everything is not enough for HFT - network cards, kernel drivers, cables, etc.

HFT is a pretty limited and extreme application case. From what I understand - everything is not enough for HFT - network cards, kernel drivers, cables, etc. You have milliseconds (edit: nanoseconds !) to receive, process and push your orders before someone else does it and gets the prize. It's an arms race between technologists for the purpose of making a small number of people rich. I doubt that these requirements apply to other application fields where C++ is used - and it's used almost everywhere, with great success I might add. In my view C++ is actually a couple of languages mixed into one. The hard part is knowing which part of the language to use for which part of the problem. The "modern" C++ solves a lot of the nuisances of the "old" C++, but you can do without these features just fine. I apply them carefully to my code and so far it's been a pleasant experience. Even if I don't use all of the new features, it's nice to know that I can (and I will some day!). So I don't really buy this rant..

gaius 10y ago
Consultants wanna consult.
- eva1984 10y ago
  Exactly...If the building blocks is simplified enough, they lose their jobs.
hendzen 10y ago
Not milliseconds. Nanoseconds. Competitive tick-to-trade times are on the order of 1000ns or less.
- logicchains 10y ago
  That really depends on the market in question. There are places where you can still make fat stacks with over 100us tick-to-trade time.
- bogomipz 10y ago
  How do you tune the machine for that type of latency? User space drivers? Could you elaborate? Not having to go beyond L1 cache doesn't mean much if it takes a few milliseconds to get that trade out of the network card and on to the wire right?
  - hendzen 10y ago
    FPGAs
mannykannot 10y ago
HFT is one of those uses C++ is supposed to be particularly good for. Many of Stroustrup's justifications for C++ take the form "You get <set of features> without compromising performance." The style outlined in your penultimate paragraph - an approach I also follow - suggests that there is some alignment between you and the author.
known 10y ago
HFT = Insider trading + Algorithm trading
- gnaritas 10y ago
  No, it's just fast algorithmic trading, aka latency arbitrage. It's still quite risky and you don't have any special information anyone else doesn't have.
  - nickpsecurity 10y ago
    I think I see what commenter meant. You have to physically be on the inside in the sense you need a direct, short connection to the network that cost ridiculous money along with HW and SW that costs ridiculous money. A prestigious position most stock traders couldn't compete with if they wanted to. Plus, you get to preempt all of them from this position without them even knowing it.
    - superuser2 10y ago
      Insider trading is a term with a specific meaning, and that is not it.
      - sheepleherd 10y ago
        Insider trading is a term with a specific meaning, and that is not it; true, but nor is the specific meaning of insider trading what most people think it is. "Trading on inside information" is a term for what many people attempt to do that is illegal. "Insider trading", on the other hand, is when insiders trade, which is totally legal, it's just regulated in certain circumstances when the size of the the trade is large or the person's role is at the executive level, an upcoming trade needs to be announced (made public) in advance as if itself it is information.
      - jandrese 10y ago
        This argument always feels like "It's not a Pyramid Scheme! It's a Triangle Opportunity!" People use the term not because it is an exact fit, but because it is the closest match we have and the intention is largely the same. HFT being a lot about using computers to gain tiny information advantages (racing the speed of light between exchanges for example) to make perfectly safe arbitrages millions of times a day and effectively skim off of the top of the market.
minipci1321 10y ago
> So I don't really buy this rant.. He explained that himself in the comments below his post: C++ is his tool of choice but he "just wanted to stir the pot". Anything in his post is contrary to my personal experience with C++.

gaius 10y ago

Consultants wanna consult.

eva1984 10y ago
Exactly...If the building blocks is simplified enough, they lose their jobs.

hendzen 10y ago

Not milliseconds. Nanoseconds. Competitive tick-to-trade times are on the order of 1000ns or less.

logicchains 10y ago
That really depends on the market in question. There are places where you can still make fat stacks with over 100us tick-to-trade time.
bogomipz 10y ago
How do you tune the machine for that type of latency? User space drivers? Could you elaborate? Not having to go beyond L1 cache doesn't mean much if it takes a few milliseconds to get that trade out of the network card and on to the wire right?
- hendzen 10y ago
  FPGAs

mannykannot 10y ago

HFT is one of those uses C++ is supposed to be particularly good for. Many of Stroustrup's justifications for C++ take the form "You get <set of features> without compromising performance." The style outlined in your penultimate paragraph - an approach I also follow - suggests that there is some alignment between you and the author.

known 10y ago

HFT = Insider trading + Algorithm trading

gnaritas 10y ago
No, it's just fast algorithmic trading, aka latency arbitrage. It's still quite risky and you don't have any special information anyone else doesn't have.
- nickpsecurity 10y ago
  I think I see what commenter meant. You have to physically be on the inside in the sense you need a direct, short connection to the network that cost ridiculous money along with HW and SW that costs ridiculous money. A prestigious position most stock traders couldn't compete with if they wanted to. Plus, you get to preempt all of them from this position without them even knowing it.
  - superuser2 10y ago
    Insider trading is a term with a specific meaning, and that is not it.
    - sheepleherd 10y ago
      Insider trading is a term with a specific meaning, and that is not it; true, but nor is the specific meaning of insider trading what most people think it is. "Trading on inside information" is a term for what many people attempt to do that is illegal. "Insider trading", on the other hand, is when insiders trade, which is totally legal, it's just regulated in certain circumstances when the size of the the trade is large or the person's role is at the executive level, an upcoming trade needs to be announced (made public) in advance as if itself it is information.
    - jandrese 10y ago
      This argument always feels like "It's not a Pyramid Scheme! It's a Triangle Opportunity!" People use the term not because it is an exact fit, but because it is the closest match we have and the intention is largely the same. HFT being a lot about using computers to gain tiny information advantages (racing the speed of light between exchanges for example) to make perfectly safe arbitrages millions of times a day and effectively skim off of the top of the market.

minipci1321 10y ago

> So I don't really buy this rant.. He explained that himself in the comments below his post: C++ is his tool of choice but he "just wanted to stir the pot". Anything in his post is contrary to my personal experience with C++.