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Mozilla: We are a non-profit and we protect your privacy; we won’t use your data to make money. Most users: Nah, man. We’ll go with the search engine and ad ne

Mozilla: We are a non-profit and we protect your privacy; we won’t use your data to make money. Most users: Nah, man. We’ll go with the search engine and ad network company.

larrik 10y ago
Every time I try to switch to Firefox, it just doesn't work as well, and I switch back. I'd rather Firefox over Chrome for philosophical reasons, but I feel like Firefox just isn't there technologically. It's getting better, but they really let it stagnate back in the day.
- distances 10y ago
  Can you elaborate on this? I've tried Chromium once and again, but always fall back to Firefox as it feels better to me. Direct reasons are the address bar functionality and better privacy support out of the box, but also some generic feel is somehow just more familiar to me. Firefox does have global freezes on particularly heavy pages due to the single process model. It's rare enough not to bother me much though. As a tip, the Firefox Android version allows add-ons -- uBlock most critically. It's just great.
  - SimeVidas 10y ago
    Multi-process is being tested in Firefox Beta right now, according to https://wiki.mozilla.org/Electrolysis#Schedule https://wiki.mozilla.org/Electrolysis#Schedule.
    - endemic 10y ago
      Anecdotally, e10s has made me go back to Firefox.
    - epoch1970 10y ago
      While some progress is being made, it worries me that it's taking so long to get this functionality into the release versions. I'm not suggesting it should be rushed out, of course. But the Electrolysis efforts date back to 2009, if not earlier. That's a long time to make users wait!
      - tetromino_ 10y ago
        Electrolysis breaks extensions that use low-level APIs designed in the single-process era [1]. This breakage drew the ire of a vocal minority of Firefox users enamored of such extensions, and AFAICT that's the major reason why e10s has taken such a long time to get enabled in release. [1] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/Add-ons/Working_with_multiprocess_Firefox https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/Add-ons/Working_with_mul...
      - cpeterso 10y ago
        While the original Electrolysis work dates back to 2009, the project was put on hold for a couple years in the middle. Development resumed in mid-2013, as the archive of meeting notes shows: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Electrolysis/Meetings https://wiki.mozilla.org/Electrolysis/Meetings
      - AckSyn 10y ago
        Why does this concern you? Mozilla, isn't as cavalier as Google as far as releases are. I remember a time in chrome's beginning it was horribly unstable but patched often. It was the lure of constant quick updates that kept a lot of people eager for the "fixes".
        verroq 10y ago
        Grandgrandparent: firefox is shit because it doesn't have feature X which causes it to crash if a single tab becomes unresponsive grandparent: firefox is building it parent: it tooks them 7 years and it is still not done? you: why do you care, who cares if mozilla updates slow? me: ???
      - nnethercote 10y ago
        I heard a nice description of Eletrolysis that at least partly explains why it has taken so long: it's the single largest change that has ever been made to Firefox.
  - vthallam 10y ago
    I use chrome as the default browser on Windows at work and on Mac at home. Though i tried firefox before on both OS, i feel it's nothing compared to chrome. I feel it's very heavy, takes more time to load pages than chrome.
  - Aldo_MX 10y ago
    > Firefox does have global freezes That's precisely the issue, it doesn't matter if Firefox just freezes for 250ms, it's enough to be perceptible and annoy me.
    - endemic 10y ago
      I had the same problem, and it was annoying as heck. Try running a multi-process build (Nightly/Aurora/Beta) and see if your experience gets any better.
      - sp332 10y ago
        For some reason the freezes are much worse in multi-process. Certain sites freeze it up consistently; newegg.com for example I just measured 67 seconds the whole window was completely unresponsive. If I disable e10s it runs fine.
    - asimuvPR 10y ago
      I'm a hardcore Firefox user. Its been my browser of choice since it came out. I'm a true Mozillian to the heart. But it kills me that I can mostly keep one window open with less than 15 tabs on a Macbook that has 16GB of ram and a fast SSD. I currently have 9 tabs/1 window and its using up 3.13GB of memory. None of the tabs have heavy Javascript processes.
      - fabrice_d 10y ago
        Do you have add-ons installed? You should really not get this memory usage on a clean installation. One way to see what's going on is to open a tab to `about:memory` and take a measure?
        asimuvPR 10y ago
        I only have uBlock origin. I ran the memory report and saved the results. Would you be interested in it? I could email it to you if thats OK.
  - szatkus 10y ago
    For me Firefox UI feels... well, sluggish. Not sure why. OTOH I happily use Firefox Android.
- tdkl 10y ago
  The same and also Chrome Sync is basically the most reliable piece of software I ever saw, specially when connected to the mobile Chrome. FF (or anyone else) doesn't do that.
  - zobzu 10y ago
    firefox uses firefox sync (which predates chrome sync) to sync your bookmarks, passwords, addons, etc. it also syncs with firefox for android and firefox for iOS...
  - xaqfox 10y ago
    What does Chrome sync offer that Firefox sync lacks? FF syncs to the mobile version quite reliably for me (though, it does not sync to mobile Chrome if that is the feature that's lacking).
    - tdkl 10y ago
      I've been syncing basically the same profile for 6 years now. FF lacked that at the beginning. The Android FF app is also unusable since it doesn't support bookmark folders when using sync, which I don't even want to know what would do to my bookmarks across devices.
      - jamesgeck0 10y ago
        Firefox correctly syncs bookmark folders on both iOS and Android. Always has, as far as I can remember. What they doesn't support is putting your mobile bookmarks into folders on your mobile device; anything you bookmark on mobile lands in a "Mobile Bookmarks" folder. You have to either use tags or organize them using the desktop browser.
      - icebraining 10y ago
        I've been syncing basically the same profile for 6 years now. FF lacked that at the beginning. Firefox Sync (formerly "Weave") has actually existed since 2007, it just was delivered as an extension instead of being built-in.
known 10y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome
neerdowell 10y ago
Most users haven't made a conscious choice to use Chrome. They install it accidentally by not unticking a checkbox[0] or because they are told it will make the Google work better[1]. [0] https://i.imgur.com/LNFjqzd.png https://i.imgur.com/LNFjqzd.png [1] https://i.imgur.com/B3b5iCZ.png https://i.imgur.com/B3b5iCZ.png
- mdaniel 10y ago
  > Most users Let's not get out of hand here. That may be true of "some users," or most users that you have come in contact with in your travels.
  - neerdowell 10y ago
    You think more than 50% of the people using Chrome deliberately sought it out and installed it after making an informed decision? Not because it was pushed via bundlware or a Google-owned property?
    - ordinary 10y ago
      You think more than 50% of the people using Firefox or (especially) Internet Explorer deliberately sought it out and installed it after making an informed decision?
      - schwap 10y ago
        IE definitely not. Firefox? yes. I've never seen any instance of Mozilla trying to trick anyone into installing FF.
        ordinary 10y ago
        I'm not even talking about tricks. IE comes pre-installed on all PCs, obviously, except for Europeans, and that only for a few years. But users generally do not bother performing in-depth research on the software they install, be it a browser some other piece of software. They use what that one technical friend keeps blabbering on about, or what their sysadmin installs on their work PC, or whatever comes up as #1 Google result when they search for 'open PDF file'. They intentionally install Firefox, true, but I am not convinced that decision is informed.
moron4hire 10y ago
Only Mozilla Foundation is a non-profit. Mozilla Corporation, where all the programmers work, is a for-profit subsidiary, wholely opened by the foundation.

Mozilla: We are a non-profit and we protect your privacy; we won’t use your data to make money. Most users: Nah, man. We’ll go with the search engine and ad network company.

larrik 10y ago

Every time I try to switch to Firefox, it just doesn't work as well, and I switch back. I'd rather Firefox over Chrome for philosophical reasons, but I feel like Firefox just isn't there technologically. It's getting better, but they really let it stagnate back in the day.

distances 10y ago
Can you elaborate on this? I've tried Chromium once and again, but always fall back to Firefox as it feels better to me. Direct reasons are the address bar functionality and better privacy support out of the box, but also some generic feel is somehow just more familiar to me. Firefox does have global freezes on particularly heavy pages due to the single process model. It's rare enough not to bother me much though. As a tip, the Firefox Android version allows add-ons -- uBlock most critically. It's just great.
- SimeVidas 10y ago
  Multi-process is being tested in Firefox Beta right now, according to https://wiki.mozilla.org/Electrolysis#Schedule https://wiki.mozilla.org/Electrolysis#Schedule.
  - endemic 10y ago
    Anecdotally, e10s has made me go back to Firefox.
  - epoch1970 10y ago
    While some progress is being made, it worries me that it's taking so long to get this functionality into the release versions. I'm not suggesting it should be rushed out, of course. But the Electrolysis efforts date back to 2009, if not earlier. That's a long time to make users wait!
    - tetromino_ 10y ago
      Electrolysis breaks extensions that use low-level APIs designed in the single-process era [1]. This breakage drew the ire of a vocal minority of Firefox users enamored of such extensions, and AFAICT that's the major reason why e10s has taken such a long time to get enabled in release. [1] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/Add-ons/Working_with_multiprocess_Firefox https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/Add-ons/Working_with_mul...
    - cpeterso 10y ago
      While the original Electrolysis work dates back to 2009, the project was put on hold for a couple years in the middle. Development resumed in mid-2013, as the archive of meeting notes shows: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Electrolysis/Meetings https://wiki.mozilla.org/Electrolysis/Meetings
    - AckSyn 10y ago
      Why does this concern you? Mozilla, isn't as cavalier as Google as far as releases are. I remember a time in chrome's beginning it was horribly unstable but patched often. It was the lure of constant quick updates that kept a lot of people eager for the "fixes".
      - verroq 10y ago
        Grandgrandparent: firefox is shit because it doesn't have feature X which causes it to crash if a single tab becomes unresponsive grandparent: firefox is building it parent: it tooks them 7 years and it is still not done? you: why do you care, who cares if mozilla updates slow? me: ???
    - nnethercote 10y ago
      I heard a nice description of Eletrolysis that at least partly explains why it has taken so long: it's the single largest change that has ever been made to Firefox.
- vthallam 10y ago
  I use chrome as the default browser on Windows at work and on Mac at home. Though i tried firefox before on both OS, i feel it's nothing compared to chrome. I feel it's very heavy, takes more time to load pages than chrome.
- Aldo_MX 10y ago
  > Firefox does have global freezes That's precisely the issue, it doesn't matter if Firefox just freezes for 250ms, it's enough to be perceptible and annoy me.
  - endemic 10y ago
    I had the same problem, and it was annoying as heck. Try running a multi-process build (Nightly/Aurora/Beta) and see if your experience gets any better.
    - sp332 10y ago
      For some reason the freezes are much worse in multi-process. Certain sites freeze it up consistently; newegg.com for example I just measured 67 seconds the whole window was completely unresponsive. If I disable e10s it runs fine.
  - asimuvPR 10y ago
    I'm a hardcore Firefox user. Its been my browser of choice since it came out. I'm a true Mozillian to the heart. But it kills me that I can mostly keep one window open with less than 15 tabs on a Macbook that has 16GB of ram and a fast SSD. I currently have 9 tabs/1 window and its using up 3.13GB of memory. None of the tabs have heavy Javascript processes.
    - fabrice_d 10y ago
      Do you have add-ons installed? You should really not get this memory usage on a clean installation. One way to see what's going on is to open a tab to `about:memory` and take a measure?
      - asimuvPR 10y ago
        I only have uBlock origin. I ran the memory report and saved the results. Would you be interested in it? I could email it to you if thats OK.
- szatkus 10y ago
  For me Firefox UI feels... well, sluggish. Not sure why. OTOH I happily use Firefox Android.
tdkl 10y ago
The same and also Chrome Sync is basically the most reliable piece of software I ever saw, specially when connected to the mobile Chrome. FF (or anyone else) doesn't do that.
- zobzu 10y ago
  firefox uses firefox sync (which predates chrome sync) to sync your bookmarks, passwords, addons, etc. it also syncs with firefox for android and firefox for iOS...
- xaqfox 10y ago
  What does Chrome sync offer that Firefox sync lacks? FF syncs to the mobile version quite reliably for me (though, it does not sync to mobile Chrome if that is the feature that's lacking).
  - tdkl 10y ago
    I've been syncing basically the same profile for 6 years now. FF lacked that at the beginning. The Android FF app is also unusable since it doesn't support bookmark folders when using sync, which I don't even want to know what would do to my bookmarks across devices.
    - jamesgeck0 10y ago
      Firefox correctly syncs bookmark folders on both iOS and Android. Always has, as far as I can remember. What they doesn't support is putting your mobile bookmarks into folders on your mobile device; anything you bookmark on mobile lands in a "Mobile Bookmarks" folder. You have to either use tags or organize them using the desktop browser.
    - icebraining 10y ago
      I've been syncing basically the same profile for 6 years now. FF lacked that at the beginning. Firefox Sync (formerly "Weave") has actually existed since 2007, it just was delivered as an extension instead of being built-in.

known 10y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome

neerdowell 10y ago

Most users haven't made a conscious choice to use Chrome. They install it accidentally by not unticking a checkbox[0] or because they are told it will make the Google work better[1]. [0] https://i.imgur.com/LNFjqzd.png https://i.imgur.com/LNFjqzd.png [1] https://i.imgur.com/B3b5iCZ.png https://i.imgur.com/B3b5iCZ.png

mdaniel 10y ago
> Most users Let's not get out of hand here. That may be true of "some users," or most users that you have come in contact with in your travels.
- neerdowell 10y ago
  You think more than 50% of the people using Chrome deliberately sought it out and installed it after making an informed decision? Not because it was pushed via bundlware or a Google-owned property?
  - ordinary 10y ago
    You think more than 50% of the people using Firefox or (especially) Internet Explorer deliberately sought it out and installed it after making an informed decision?
    - schwap 10y ago
      IE definitely not. Firefox? yes. I've never seen any instance of Mozilla trying to trick anyone into installing FF.
      - ordinary 10y ago
        I'm not even talking about tricks. IE comes pre-installed on all PCs, obviously, except for Europeans, and that only for a few years. But users generally do not bother performing in-depth research on the software they install, be it a browser some other piece of software. They use what that one technical friend keeps blabbering on about, or what their sysadmin installs on their work PC, or whatever comes up as #1 Google result when they search for 'open PDF file'. They intentionally install Firefox, true, but I am not convinced that decision is informed.

moron4hire 10y ago

Only Mozilla Foundation is a non-profit. Mozilla Corporation, where all the programmers work, is a for-profit subsidiary, wholely opened by the foundation.