5 ms·

IPhone development is for addicts

36 points by c1sc0 17y ago

My feelings towards AppStore development are becoming borderline schizophrenic. Despite the damage the AppStore does to devs we keep developing for it. That's addiction!

bretpiatt 17y ago
I agree to a limited extent with his point of, "It is convenient for us amateur devs to be able to focus on development and let Apple take care of all the things we hate most: distribution, payment processing & a little marketing." Developers want people to use their stuff but the effort of marketing and selling it isn't fun. The complete truth is in the article as well where he mentions all of the ways they don't market your app for you (i.e. the buggy New Release page). So yes, Apple handles distribution and payment processing but don't count on them for marketing.
- rgrieselhuber 17y ago
  Although they could probably at least double their AppStore revenues by doing an in-store PPC ad network.
  - c1sc0 17y ago
    That is something I never understood about the AppStore: there's no way to set up a decent sales funnel. Once you redirect the user to iTunes you lose all tracking capabilities. If they can't provide basics like that, I think PPC ads are a long way off.
    - wooster 17y ago
      Even some basic analytics would help: How are people finding my app? What are they searching for? What web sites did they come from? What languages do they speak? etc.
    - deleted 17y ago
      [deleted]
    - DenisM 17y ago
      look into linkshare - it lets you track purchases with some precision.
- dangrover 17y ago
  This is a really silly reason for people to develop for the iPhone. Yes, you can use the App Store to your advantage if you work at it, but you really should think of it more as replacement to the "download" link you'd have on a desktop app site. It's best to market things like you would on any platform (web, desktop, or otherwise) and spread the word. Just because it's an iPhone doesn't make it magical.
  - DenisM 17y ago
    It does drive down your costs compared to web site - you don't have to explain it to as many people, they do a reasonable job at copy protection and they handle billing.
Batsu 17y ago
The first step is admitting you have a problem :)
wallflower 17y ago
> We know deep inside that HTML5+JS+CSS is where the future is going. When I compare the state of the tool suites for HTML5+JS+CSS to XCode, I can't help but think of Visual Basic 4. In my opinion, Visual Basic 4 was the first tool that made it easier to build and test GUI-driven database apps. In a similar manner, XCode is the first tool that makes it easier to build mobile apps. It doesn't hurt that Cocoa is such a well-designed framework. From the recent articles about Android development experiences I've read (UI building in Android being an unholy mess of GridBagLayout and XML), it appears Apple still has the best-in-class tools for mobile development. Yes, it is a closed market, the AppStore. However, unless you have a top-200 app, it's likely your customers will find your app by searching for it, not browsing. This is highlighted by the recent change that makes keywords mandatory for app submission. Until HTML5+JS+CSS is easier to develop, I believe mobile development is going to favor the iPhone SDK because it makes it easier to get something together.
- somebear 17y ago
  I fully agree, but I also think Apple is moving in that direction with Dashcode, although it doesn't really provide the full functionality of Xcode+Interface builder. I think, the time when HTML5+JS+CSS will become everyday for small apps is the day when there are some robust UI frameworks. We are moving in that direction with the different frameworks, e.g. Cappucino [http://cappuccino.org/ http://cappuccino.org/]. In the meantime you can take a look at Qt Quick [http://blog.qt.nokia.com/2010/02/15/meet-qt-quick/ http://blog.qt.nokia.com/2010/02/15/meet-qt-quick/]. It uses a declarative language, called QML, for defining UI and the app logic can be either JS or hooked into Qt objects written in C++. I've only played with it a couple of days, and already I am sold on the possibilities for rich animated fast UIs.
  - wallflower 17y ago
    Thanks for the heads up on Qt. It seems a lot of development time, especially early on, is consumed with debugging and fitting pieces together properly. What is your impression so far of the ease of debugging (not on hardware, the simulator)? XCode's Instruments and their debugger are tools I've only started getting more out of using.

36 points by c1sc0 17y ago

My feelings towards AppStore development are becoming borderline schizophrenic. Despite the damage the AppStore does to devs we keep developing for it. That's addiction!

bretpiatt 17y ago

I agree to a limited extent with his point of, "It is convenient for us amateur devs to be able to focus on development and let Apple take care of all the things we hate most: distribution, payment processing & a little marketing." Developers want people to use their stuff but the effort of marketing and selling it isn't fun. The complete truth is in the article as well where he mentions all of the ways they don't market your app for you (i.e. the buggy New Release page). So yes, Apple handles distribution and payment processing but don't count on them for marketing.

rgrieselhuber 17y ago
Although they could probably at least double their AppStore revenues by doing an in-store PPC ad network.
- c1sc0 17y ago
  That is something I never understood about the AppStore: there's no way to set up a decent sales funnel. Once you redirect the user to iTunes you lose all tracking capabilities. If they can't provide basics like that, I think PPC ads are a long way off.
  - wooster 17y ago
    Even some basic analytics would help: How are people finding my app? What are they searching for? What web sites did they come from? What languages do they speak? etc.
  - deleted 17y ago
    [deleted]
  - DenisM 17y ago
    look into linkshare - it lets you track purchases with some precision.
dangrover 17y ago
This is a really silly reason for people to develop for the iPhone. Yes, you can use the App Store to your advantage if you work at it, but you really should think of it more as replacement to the "download" link you'd have on a desktop app site. It's best to market things like you would on any platform (web, desktop, or otherwise) and spread the word. Just because it's an iPhone doesn't make it magical.
- DenisM 17y ago
  It does drive down your costs compared to web site - you don't have to explain it to as many people, they do a reasonable job at copy protection and they handle billing.

Batsu 17y ago

The first step is admitting you have a problem :)

wallflower 17y ago

> We know deep inside that HTML5+JS+CSS is where the future is going. When I compare the state of the tool suites for HTML5+JS+CSS to XCode, I can't help but think of Visual Basic 4. In my opinion, Visual Basic 4 was the first tool that made it easier to build and test GUI-driven database apps. In a similar manner, XCode is the first tool that makes it easier to build mobile apps. It doesn't hurt that Cocoa is such a well-designed framework. From the recent articles about Android development experiences I've read (UI building in Android being an unholy mess of GridBagLayout and XML), it appears Apple still has the best-in-class tools for mobile development. Yes, it is a closed market, the AppStore. However, unless you have a top-200 app, it's likely your customers will find your app by searching for it, not browsing. This is highlighted by the recent change that makes keywords mandatory for app submission. Until HTML5+JS+CSS is easier to develop, I believe mobile development is going to favor the iPhone SDK because it makes it easier to get something together.

somebear 17y ago
I fully agree, but I also think Apple is moving in that direction with Dashcode, although it doesn't really provide the full functionality of Xcode+Interface builder. I think, the time when HTML5+JS+CSS will become everyday for small apps is the day when there are some robust UI frameworks. We are moving in that direction with the different frameworks, e.g. Cappucino [http://cappuccino.org/ http://cappuccino.org/]. In the meantime you can take a look at Qt Quick [http://blog.qt.nokia.com/2010/02/15/meet-qt-quick/ http://blog.qt.nokia.com/2010/02/15/meet-qt-quick/]. It uses a declarative language, called QML, for defining UI and the app logic can be either JS or hooked into Qt objects written in C++. I've only played with it a couple of days, and already I am sold on the possibilities for rich animated fast UIs.
- wallflower 17y ago
  Thanks for the heads up on Qt. It seems a lot of development time, especially early on, is consumed with debugging and fitting pieces together properly. What is your impression so far of the ease of debugging (not on hardware, the simulator)? XCode's Instruments and their debugger are tools I've only started getting more out of using.