4 ms·

From reading this, HGST >>> Seagate, right? I wasn't sure how the "weird" sourcing they had (cracking external drives open during the HDD drought) would affect

by rdl 10y ago

From reading this, HGST >>> Seagate, right? I wasn't sure how the "weird" sourcing they had (cracking external drives open during the HDD drought) would affect things, but that was over in 2015, and the trend still seems to be HGST > Seagate.

oarsinsync 10y ago
Yeah, that was my takeaway. In particular, this graph makes for sobering viewing. https://www.backblaze.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/drive-stats-2016-q1-failure-by-mfg.jpg https://www.backblaze.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/dr... I'm regretting the last batch of Seagates I bought to replace HGSTs now.
- atYevP 10y ago
  Yev from Backblaze -> you're probably fine. Everything will fail eventually, just have a backup! We recommend Backblaze :P
  - rdl 10y ago
    I wish you had a way to "seed" backups with removable media. I'm a backblaze user but initial backup (I have photo collections) is super slow. Probably not in your pricing model, though.
    - atYevP 10y ago
      Yea, that's a bit tough for us to do. We'd have to have a way to tie that to your account from inside our datacenter and that's a bit complicated. Plus we'd have to find a way to charge for that to make up for the additional labor. That might be something we consider for B2, but it's a tougher sell for our personal/business product.
      - rdl 10y ago
        For B2, making an open source version of the amazon data transfer appliance would be cool.
  - oarsinsync 10y ago
    Haha thanks, but I have my backups already sorted (I bought more disks and put them in a different location)
    - atYevP 10y ago
      We applaud you :)
    - throwanem 10y ago
      Consider additionally using RAID-1 to increase short-term stability with potentially untrustworthy drives. Not only do you not have to restore from backup as often, you get a nice read rate boost besides!
      - oarsinsync 10y ago
        6 disk RAID6 sets with a hot spare per array. Adding additional disks to RAID1 each Seagate kinda defeats the point at this point unfortunately. That's an interesting idea in other circumstances, however. Thanks for sharing!
- nikcub 10y ago
  I was about to buy some WD Red's for my home NAS but may reconsider for the Hitachi NAS edition. Ayone have experience with the later? edit: just found this: https://www.reddit.com/r/homelab/comments/2y12oj/hgst_deskstar_nas_vs_wdred_non_pro_4tb/ https://www.reddit.com/r/homelab/comments/2y12oj/hgst_deskst...
atYevP 10y ago
Yev from Backblaze -> we're not really out to make a definitive "x is better than y" statement, that's just what's occurred in our environment. We've heavily favored HGST in the past, but lately we've been buying a lot of Seagate drives, mostly because for us their failure rates have dropped, and they tend to be more plentifully available and slightly less expensive. Since we built our system to handle hard drive failure, the failure rate is interesting, but the price is what we're more focused on (at least at the moment). > I wasn't sure how the "weird" sourcing they had (cracking external drives open during the HDD drought) would affect things, but that was over in 2015 That was actually in 2011, all those hard drives have been out of our system for a while!
- ValentineC 10y ago
  > We've heavily favored HGST in the past, but lately we've been buying a lot of Seagate drives, mostly because for us their failure rates have dropped, and they tend to be more plentifully available and slightly less expensive. Are you buying bare drives, or shucking them from enclosures?
  - atYevP 10y ago
    > Are you buying bare drives, or shucking them from enclosures? We haven't had to shuck drives since 2012. And we only started doing that because regular drive prices went up so much due to the Thailand flooding. I believe all those drives have now been replaced as well. If you want a good write-up (along with links to past posts) this is a good "Hard Drive Farming" write-up -> https://www.backblaze.com/blog/farming-hard-drives-2-years-and-1m-later/ https://www.backblaze.com/blog/farming-hard-drives-2-years-a...
wiredfool 10y ago
Seagate had one horrifically bad, almost guaranteed to fail drive in the sample, the 3TB ST3000DM001. Many many people lost data when they died (according to reviews @ newegg and amazon).
- rawnlq 10y ago
  It is currently the best gb/dollar drive right now at $70 so I was tempted to get it but then saw the backblaze article. People on /r/buildapc don't seem to believe it's a problem though: https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/4jkpor/avoid_the_seagate_barracuda_3tb_35_7200rpm/ https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/4jkpor/avoid_the_...
  - wiredfool 10y ago
    Well, they're entitled to their opinion. It's possible that the problem was fixed and that there are new drives with that model number that don't have the bug. I personally wouldn't use one for anything more critical than a door stop. Been there, done that, lost some data.
    - jandrese 10y ago
      Yeah, I personally wouldn't buy one at this point. It looks a lot like some sort of design or chronic manufacturing flaw. Seagate's version of the IBM Deathstar.
- quasse 10y ago
  I had the massive misfortune of building out my first large storage box at home with those drives. Thank god for RAID, because every single one of them and every single warranty replacement has now failed. I bought HGST after that and have not seen a single bad sector.

by rdl 10y ago

oarsinsync 10y ago

Yeah, that was my takeaway. In particular, this graph makes for sobering viewing. https://www.backblaze.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/drive-stats-2016-q1-failure-by-mfg.jpg https://www.backblaze.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/dr... I'm regretting the last batch of Seagates I bought to replace HGSTs now.

atYevP 10y ago
Yev from Backblaze -> you're probably fine. Everything will fail eventually, just have a backup! We recommend Backblaze :P
- rdl 10y ago
  I wish you had a way to "seed" backups with removable media. I'm a backblaze user but initial backup (I have photo collections) is super slow. Probably not in your pricing model, though.
  - atYevP 10y ago
    Yea, that's a bit tough for us to do. We'd have to have a way to tie that to your account from inside our datacenter and that's a bit complicated. Plus we'd have to find a way to charge for that to make up for the additional labor. That might be something we consider for B2, but it's a tougher sell for our personal/business product.
    - rdl 10y ago
      For B2, making an open source version of the amazon data transfer appliance would be cool.
- oarsinsync 10y ago
  Haha thanks, but I have my backups already sorted (I bought more disks and put them in a different location)
  - atYevP 10y ago
    We applaud you :)
  - throwanem 10y ago
    Consider additionally using RAID-1 to increase short-term stability with potentially untrustworthy drives. Not only do you not have to restore from backup as often, you get a nice read rate boost besides!
    - oarsinsync 10y ago
      6 disk RAID6 sets with a hot spare per array. Adding additional disks to RAID1 each Seagate kinda defeats the point at this point unfortunately. That's an interesting idea in other circumstances, however. Thanks for sharing!
nikcub 10y ago
I was about to buy some WD Red's for my home NAS but may reconsider for the Hitachi NAS edition. Ayone have experience with the later? edit: just found this: https://www.reddit.com/r/homelab/comments/2y12oj/hgst_deskstar_nas_vs_wdred_non_pro_4tb/ https://www.reddit.com/r/homelab/comments/2y12oj/hgst_deskst...

atYevP 10y ago

Yev from Backblaze -> we're not really out to make a definitive "x is better than y" statement, that's just what's occurred in our environment. We've heavily favored HGST in the past, but lately we've been buying a lot of Seagate drives, mostly because for us their failure rates have dropped, and they tend to be more plentifully available and slightly less expensive. Since we built our system to handle hard drive failure, the failure rate is interesting, but the price is what we're more focused on (at least at the moment). > I wasn't sure how the "weird" sourcing they had (cracking external drives open during the HDD drought) would affect things, but that was over in 2015 That was actually in 2011, all those hard drives have been out of our system for a while!

ValentineC 10y ago
> We've heavily favored HGST in the past, but lately we've been buying a lot of Seagate drives, mostly because for us their failure rates have dropped, and they tend to be more plentifully available and slightly less expensive. Are you buying bare drives, or shucking them from enclosures?
- atYevP 10y ago
  > Are you buying bare drives, or shucking them from enclosures? We haven't had to shuck drives since 2012. And we only started doing that because regular drive prices went up so much due to the Thailand flooding. I believe all those drives have now been replaced as well. If you want a good write-up (along with links to past posts) this is a good "Hard Drive Farming" write-up -> https://www.backblaze.com/blog/farming-hard-drives-2-years-and-1m-later/ https://www.backblaze.com/blog/farming-hard-drives-2-years-a...

wiredfool 10y ago

Seagate had one horrifically bad, almost guaranteed to fail drive in the sample, the 3TB ST3000DM001. Many many people lost data when they died (according to reviews @ newegg and amazon).

rawnlq 10y ago
It is currently the best gb/dollar drive right now at $70 so I was tempted to get it but then saw the backblaze article. People on /r/buildapc don't seem to believe it's a problem though: https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/4jkpor/avoid_the_seagate_barracuda_3tb_35_7200rpm/ https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/4jkpor/avoid_the_...
- wiredfool 10y ago
  Well, they're entitled to their opinion. It's possible that the problem was fixed and that there are new drives with that model number that don't have the bug. I personally wouldn't use one for anything more critical than a door stop. Been there, done that, lost some data.
  - jandrese 10y ago
    Yeah, I personally wouldn't buy one at this point. It looks a lot like some sort of design or chronic manufacturing flaw. Seagate's version of the IBM Deathstar.
quasse 10y ago
I had the massive misfortune of building out my first large storage box at home with those drives. Thank god for RAID, because every single one of them and every single warranty replacement has now failed. I bought HGST after that and have not seen a single bad sector.