5 ms·

In the case of GMO foods it's the extra pesticides slathered on them that actually worries me. I'd prefer explicit pesticide labeling but GMO labeling is a clo

In the case of GMO foods it's the extra pesticides slathered on them that actually worries me. I'd prefer explicit pesticide labeling but GMO labeling is a close enough approximation. GMO usually means an extra dollop of roundup.

jjoonathan 10y ago
I thought it was the other way around: GMO gives you better selectivity, meaning you can use less pesticide to get a given yield? I can't speak for glyphosate, but for Bt I seem to remember that you need 10x or 100x the concentration if you spray it on account of not being able to distribute it perfectly evenly.
- ino 10y ago
  The problem is that historically the US and now global companies have a bad record of consumer protection and low regulation, specially when it comes to new technology, and you can't trust companies to act on the best interests of consumers. (lead poisoning, fracking, tobacco industry, pharma testing, environmental disasters by oil companies, agent orange and many, many more)
- cmrdporcupine 10y ago
  Glyphosate use is way _up_ because it's a non-selective herbicide so you never used it the way they use it now. Back then you'd use it at certain times of the year when the field was barren, or maybe along a hedgerow here and there. You had to be careful because it would just as easily destroy your crop as the weeds. Now they blast the whole field with it (and it drifts next door into my field, where I am growing grape vines that are hyper-sensitive to the stuff.) The end result is a huge loss in biodiversity. I don't care about GMO for its health effects in the food chain. I care about its environmental effects.
  - vonmoltke 10y ago
    > Now they blast the whole field with it (and it drifts next door into my field, where I am growing grape vines that are hyper-sensitive to the stuff.) You can't blame genetic modification for shitty farmers. That's like blaming NSA surveillance on the Internet.
    - cmrdporcupine 10y ago
      I don't actually blame genetic modification. I think we will see some interesting uses of it to come. The shitty farming though is definitely a result of the Roundup Ready product line. It's the recommended and most optimal way to use it.
  - Articulate 10y ago
    How Much Glyphosate Do Farmers Use?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkRSV_mF7hw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkRSV_mF7hw)
    - cmrdporcupine 10y ago
      Yes, I spent a day in a grower's pesticide training course and have a certificate here in Ontario to buy and spray pesticides. RoundUp like most pesticides is shipped and stored in a highly concentrated state. The farmer will then tank mix that with a whole lot of water to produce the actual usable pesticide. The video you posted is highly misleading.
- a_imho 10y ago
  But how is concentration related to toxicity or environmental impact? I know it is sensationalist, but videos like this make it very hard to take the word of the GMO lobby for granted https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovKw6YjqSfM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovKw6YjqSfM
  - cmrdporcupine 10y ago
    Glyphosate itself is likely non-toxic to mammals. But the carriers (detergents, adjuvants, etc.) that it is in are decidedly not. I wouldn't drink it either. At best it'd be like drinking a cup of dishwasher soap. The other ingredients are not nearly as heavily regulated as the pesticide itself. There is some concern that damage to amphibians, aquatic organisms etc. could be a result of the detergents and stickers added to the sprays rather than the spray themselves.

jjoonathan 10y ago

I thought it was the other way around: GMO gives you better selectivity, meaning you can use less pesticide to get a given yield? I can't speak for glyphosate, but for Bt I seem to remember that you need 10x or 100x the concentration if you spray it on account of not being able to distribute it perfectly evenly.

ino 10y ago
The problem is that historically the US and now global companies have a bad record of consumer protection and low regulation, specially when it comes to new technology, and you can't trust companies to act on the best interests of consumers. (lead poisoning, fracking, tobacco industry, pharma testing, environmental disasters by oil companies, agent orange and many, many more)
cmrdporcupine 10y ago
Glyphosate use is way _up_ because it's a non-selective herbicide so you never used it the way they use it now. Back then you'd use it at certain times of the year when the field was barren, or maybe along a hedgerow here and there. You had to be careful because it would just as easily destroy your crop as the weeds. Now they blast the whole field with it (and it drifts next door into my field, where I am growing grape vines that are hyper-sensitive to the stuff.) The end result is a huge loss in biodiversity. I don't care about GMO for its health effects in the food chain. I care about its environmental effects.
- vonmoltke 10y ago
  > Now they blast the whole field with it (and it drifts next door into my field, where I am growing grape vines that are hyper-sensitive to the stuff.) You can't blame genetic modification for shitty farmers. That's like blaming NSA surveillance on the Internet.
  - cmrdporcupine 10y ago
    I don't actually blame genetic modification. I think we will see some interesting uses of it to come. The shitty farming though is definitely a result of the Roundup Ready product line. It's the recommended and most optimal way to use it.
- Articulate 10y ago
  How Much Glyphosate Do Farmers Use?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkRSV_mF7hw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkRSV_mF7hw)
  - cmrdporcupine 10y ago
    Yes, I spent a day in a grower's pesticide training course and have a certificate here in Ontario to buy and spray pesticides. RoundUp like most pesticides is shipped and stored in a highly concentrated state. The farmer will then tank mix that with a whole lot of water to produce the actual usable pesticide. The video you posted is highly misleading.
a_imho 10y ago
But how is concentration related to toxicity or environmental impact? I know it is sensationalist, but videos like this make it very hard to take the word of the GMO lobby for granted https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovKw6YjqSfM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovKw6YjqSfM
- cmrdporcupine 10y ago
  Glyphosate itself is likely non-toxic to mammals. But the carriers (detergents, adjuvants, etc.) that it is in are decidedly not. I wouldn't drink it either. At best it'd be like drinking a cup of dishwasher soap. The other ingredients are not nearly as heavily regulated as the pesticide itself. There is some concern that damage to amphibians, aquatic organisms etc. could be a result of the detergents and stickers added to the sprays rather than the spray themselves.