4 ms·

The Unsure Artist

34 points by grellas 17y ago

evanrmurphy 17y ago
In hindsight all great events get this sort of deliberate, almost pre-ordained air about them. Especially if you don't look very closely, since basic official history acts like a PR platform for interested political groups. So +1 for digging into the uncertainty, self-doubt and haphazardness that is the creative process for these great artists.
- Mz 17y ago
  Your remark makes me think of this other current thread/posted article (about "Black Swans"): http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1170834 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1170834
CoreDumpling 17y ago
This seems to be extremely common among artists and musicians, which I suspect is because their livelihood is tremendously dependent on reputation as it is hard to objectively judge their work. They have very high standards to meet and very little room for error, hence the tendency for extreme perfectionism, even to the point of destructive behavior. Johannes Brahms, who spent more than 20 years composing his first symphony, did not want to be judged on the basis of any of his unfinished works or personal letters, so before he died he dumped them all into the river. Jean Sibelius burned the manuscripts of almost everything he attempted in the decades after his final published work. Camille Saint-Saëns suppressed his now-famous Carnival of the Animals because he thought it was too immature for someone of his stature and that people would stop taking him seriously. I think the effects of impostor syndrome become greatly magnified when one has a reputation to protect, especially if it's one that would persist after death. But I think most of us can find some comfort in the words of Sibelius: "Pay no attention to what critics say. No statue has ever been put up to a critic."
- shrughes 17y ago
  > But I think most of us can find some comfort in the words of Sibelius: "Pay no attention to what critics say. No statue has ever been put up to a critic." Well then, there must be some statue-based analogue of Rule 34, because... http://www.therestisnoise.com/2006/03/statues_of_crit.html http://www.therestisnoise.com/2006/03/statues_of_crit.html
  - CoreDumpling 17y ago
    Heh, that's rather humbling. But then, if I may borrow the wisdom of Cato the Elder: "I would much rather have men ask why I have no statue than why I have one."
    - kimfuh 17y ago
      I'd rather have a statue.
clutchski 17y ago
“An artist has got to be careful never really to arrive at a place where he thinks he's 'at' somewhere. You always have to realize that you're constantly in a state of becoming, you know? And as long as you can stay in that realm you'll sort of be all right.” - Bob Dylan
davi 17y ago
First time in a while I've wanted to look up a non-technical or scientific book after reading an article.
revorad 17y ago
The 1938 concert - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbzXS49937A http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbzXS49937A. Oh man what a great start to the day!
danbmil99 17y ago
Kafka asked his friend to burn all his manuscripts (thankfully his friend ignored that request). Kubrick destroyed the negatives of his first 2 films.
cellhub 17y ago
:)
Dejen45 17y ago
Great post. I like to make the comparison and take the idea of artistry beyond music, visual and performing arts, or anything else you'd encounter at your local cultural center. The better idea is to take Artistry as a concept applicable to all disciplines. You can be an artist in any profession as long as you're humble, and work your ass off to get to the next level. Once you get comfortable, you slow down. Get busy Livin' or get busy dying. Look at Google's evolution since 2000, how Apple has taken over music distribution...It's mind blowing how innovation and creativity keep pushing us into the Jetsons era. Like in jazz, innovation comes from paying respect to the masters, but still developing your own voice.
Mz 17y ago
The article talks about people who weren't simply artists but were "greats". I think one thing that causes someone like that to be so questioning is that they lack a good basis of comparison -- especially pre-internet era. These days, I think it is easier to connect to those rare few individuals "like" you in some way if you are at odds with most of the folks around you IRL. But, even so, if you are doing something way out front, to whom do you realistically compare yourself and to what do you realistically compare your work?

34 points by grellas 17y ago

In hindsight all great events get this sort of deliberate, almost pre-ordained air about them. Especially if you don't look very closely, since basic official history acts like a PR platform for interested political groups. So +1 for digging into the uncertainty, self-doubt and haphazardness that is the creative process for these great artists.

Mz 17y ago
Your remark makes me think of this other current thread/posted article (about "Black Swans"): http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1170834 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1170834

CoreDumpling 17y ago

This seems to be extremely common among artists and musicians, which I suspect is because their livelihood is tremendously dependent on reputation as it is hard to objectively judge their work. They have very high standards to meet and very little room for error, hence the tendency for extreme perfectionism, even to the point of destructive behavior. Johannes Brahms, who spent more than 20 years composing his first symphony, did not want to be judged on the basis of any of his unfinished works or personal letters, so before he died he dumped them all into the river. Jean Sibelius burned the manuscripts of almost everything he attempted in the decades after his final published work. Camille Saint-Saëns suppressed his now-famous Carnival of the Animals because he thought it was too immature for someone of his stature and that people would stop taking him seriously. I think the effects of impostor syndrome become greatly magnified when one has a reputation to protect, especially if it's one that would persist after death. But I think most of us can find some comfort in the words of Sibelius: "Pay no attention to what critics say. No statue has ever been put up to a critic."

shrughes 17y ago
> But I think most of us can find some comfort in the words of Sibelius: "Pay no attention to what critics say. No statue has ever been put up to a critic." Well then, there must be some statue-based analogue of Rule 34, because... http://www.therestisnoise.com/2006/03/statues_of_crit.html http://www.therestisnoise.com/2006/03/statues_of_crit.html
- CoreDumpling 17y ago
  Heh, that's rather humbling. But then, if I may borrow the wisdom of Cato the Elder: "I would much rather have men ask why I have no statue than why I have one."
  - kimfuh 17y ago
    I'd rather have a statue.

clutchski 17y ago

“An artist has got to be careful never really to arrive at a place where he thinks he's 'at' somewhere. You always have to realize that you're constantly in a state of becoming, you know? And as long as you can stay in that realm you'll sort of be all right.” - Bob Dylan

davi 17y ago

First time in a while I've wanted to look up a non-technical or scientific book after reading an article.

revorad 17y ago

The 1938 concert - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbzXS49937A http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbzXS49937A. Oh man what a great start to the day!

danbmil99 17y ago

Kafka asked his friend to burn all his manuscripts (thankfully his friend ignored that request). Kubrick destroyed the negatives of his first 2 films.

cellhub 17y ago

Dejen45 17y ago

Great post. I like to make the comparison and take the idea of artistry beyond music, visual and performing arts, or anything else you'd encounter at your local cultural center. The better idea is to take Artistry as a concept applicable to all disciplines. You can be an artist in any profession as long as you're humble, and work your ass off to get to the next level. Once you get comfortable, you slow down. Get busy Livin' or get busy dying. Look at Google's evolution since 2000, how Apple has taken over music distribution...It's mind blowing how innovation and creativity keep pushing us into the Jetsons era. Like in jazz, innovation comes from paying respect to the masters, but still developing your own voice.

Mz 17y ago

The article talks about people who weren't simply artists but were "greats". I think one thing that causes someone like that to be so questioning is that they lack a good basis of comparison -- especially pre-internet era. These days, I think it is easier to connect to those rare few individuals "like" you in some way if you are at odds with most of the folks around you IRL. But, even so, if you are doing something way out front, to whom do you realistically compare yourself and to what do you realistically compare your work?