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It seems odd that Orwell advocated for English purism, 1984 makes it seem like using 'base' English words as building blocks and eliminating unnecessary, flower

by katedye 10y ago

It seems odd that Orwell advocated for English purism, 1984 makes it seem like using 'base' English words as building blocks and eliminating unnecessary, flowery language was synonymous with fascism (or at least not a good thing)

jsprogrammer 10y ago
I think the real power was in getting words to "mean their opposite"; WAR IS PEACE, etc.
danharaj 10y ago
The threat of newspeak is that it can render concepts unspeakable. Orwell advocated using words better. A simple word that bears the right meaning is better than a complex word that has nuance, but in having nuance is flabby. He complains in particular that "prose consists less and less of words chosen for the sake of their meaning, and more and more of phrases tacked together like the sections of a prefabricated hen-house." He claims that there is political intent behind the trendy language of the day. He's probably right. I will walk out of the conference room the next time someone tells me to "drill down" or "circle back" or "touch base". I'll do it for Orwell. Think of it as a cargo cult of language; play-acting at meaning-saying: Language wielded like a ritual dagger instead of a tool. You can recognize some examples of what he'd complain about if you pay attention to that sense. I'm annoyed by lots of uses of English; I must be fun to be around. I can't say they're misuses, but i dislike them. My favorite might be "I would argue", followed by... the author making an argument? Why the distancing? It's a verbal tick. It creates an air of passivity or detachment which is immediately contradicted by the words that follow. I suppose there's an idea these days that being detached and emotionless confers objectivity and wisdom, but I can't say i know at all for certain why people write or speak the way they do. Language should stick to meaning like muscle to bone. http://www.orwell.ru/library/essays/politics/english/e_polit/ http://www.orwell.ru/library/essays/politics/english/e_polit...
- sb057 10y ago
  I think Orwell's view of language is the same basic principle as engineering: keep it as simple as possible. Don't make it too simple as to lose meaning, but don't needlessly overcomplicate things either.
  - chillacy 10y ago
    Orwell used to be a proponent of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_English https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_English as well.
- armenarmen 10y ago
  politics and the english language is my favorite essay, thanks for reminding me of it.
- elcapitan 10y ago
  > My favorite might be "I would argue", followed by... the author making an argument [..] I suppose there's an idea these days that being detached and emotionless confers objectivity and wisdom I would argue Orwell would definitely get downvoted all the time on HN for saying clearly his opinion and not masquerading it in an etiquette of apparent self-doubt. ;) I really like his essay on politics and language, thanks for the reminder.

by katedye 10y ago

jsprogrammer 10y ago

I think the real power was in getting words to "mean their opposite"; WAR IS PEACE, etc.

danharaj 10y ago

The threat of newspeak is that it can render concepts unspeakable. Orwell advocated using words better. A simple word that bears the right meaning is better than a complex word that has nuance, but in having nuance is flabby. He complains in particular that "prose consists less and less of words chosen for the sake of their meaning, and more and more of phrases tacked together like the sections of a prefabricated hen-house." He claims that there is political intent behind the trendy language of the day. He's probably right. I will walk out of the conference room the next time someone tells me to "drill down" or "circle back" or "touch base". I'll do it for Orwell. Think of it as a cargo cult of language; play-acting at meaning-saying: Language wielded like a ritual dagger instead of a tool. You can recognize some examples of what he'd complain about if you pay attention to that sense. I'm annoyed by lots of uses of English; I must be fun to be around. I can't say they're misuses, but i dislike them. My favorite might be "I would argue", followed by... the author making an argument? Why the distancing? It's a verbal tick. It creates an air of passivity or detachment which is immediately contradicted by the words that follow. I suppose there's an idea these days that being detached and emotionless confers objectivity and wisdom, but I can't say i know at all for certain why people write or speak the way they do. Language should stick to meaning like muscle to bone. http://www.orwell.ru/library/essays/politics/english/e_polit/ http://www.orwell.ru/library/essays/politics/english/e_polit...

sb057 10y ago
I think Orwell's view of language is the same basic principle as engineering: keep it as simple as possible. Don't make it too simple as to lose meaning, but don't needlessly overcomplicate things either.
- chillacy 10y ago
  Orwell used to be a proponent of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_English https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_English as well.
armenarmen 10y ago
politics and the english language is my favorite essay, thanks for reminding me of it.
elcapitan 10y ago
> My favorite might be "I would argue", followed by... the author making an argument [..] I suppose there's an idea these days that being detached and emotionless confers objectivity and wisdom I would argue Orwell would definitely get downvoted all the time on HN for saying clearly his opinion and not masquerading it in an etiquette of apparent self-doubt. ;) I really like his essay on politics and language, thanks for the reminder.