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You wouldn't want to inhibit a community like HN, that would be useless.. but if you could shape it or get it to like you, that would be monumental. Let's look

You wouldn't want to inhibit a community like HN, that would be useless.. but if you could shape it or get it to like you, that would be monumental. Let's look at it from different scales.. Think on a very small scale: how many hugely successful companies were on YC combinator? A lot. Companies like Dropbox, Airbnb, etc. Companies that are now important. Imagine if you could influence their founders right at the beginning of their journey.. Where people spend their night and what files they store? That's great information to have. Think on a slightly bigger scale: how many applied to YC? A whole lot more. What would you get if you influence those? How many are on HN but haven't applied to YC (i.e: read and comment or just read): a lot, lot more.. Where are they? Could be anywhere. They could speak any language, be of any color, worship any deity.. They could be a teenager or a senior VP, an engineer or an artist. They could get any access to anyone, they could either know someone or know someone who knows someone. They all are somewhat technically literate and can influence people around them. Right there, my friend, is the prime recruiting Tree of Knowledge for any Intelligence Officer in the world. Imagine if you could develop assets everywhere.. Or better yet, imagine if you can shape the image such a great demographic has about you to the point they look at you like a normal tech company: suddenly, you've reframed the interaction and took the controversy/guilt/moral dilemma out of it. They won't consider themselves assets since you're just like Google or Dropbox.. they won't think they're spying on their countries, it will just be filing a vulnerability report. You could also have advocates that relay your thoughts on an issue about something: it's like having millions of megaphones. Or at least don't go hardcore on you.. Imagine all the communities each HN member is part of, and the reach this gives you.. Imagine all the places they access HN from.. Just imagine the possibilities if you get people that smart and dispersed to like and respect you.

saganus 10y ago
I see the point. Still scares the hell out of me. Privacy is a very strange thing. Even though I know that what I comment in online forums like HN is public for all intents and purposes it sends chills down my spine to think that we as a community could be shaped as you say. And if they are able to do so, how do they do it? I mean, besides the obvious tools like sockpuppet accounts and such, how do you build a strategy to steer an online community? what kind of psychological tools do you need to employ? Obviously psyops and humint people have decades of research on public manipulation, but still... how do you measure success? how do you keep it out of the participants' attention in a community that is full of educated (on these issues) people, or at least more educated than the average Joe I would hope?
- Jugurtha 10y ago
  Well, a "community" can be shaped when its individuals delegate thinking for themselves. This is the case with places where traditions hinder critical thinking. Everyone in unison: "GO TO statements are bad; Dijkstra said so". It also doesn't need to be kept out of the participant's attention to work or there wouldn't have been Hanssens and Polyakovs.. My point is that if the very people who do this for a living and are trained to counter an effort to turn them can be recruited, then anyone can be. Smart people seem to be like a machine with more open ports than a microwave and knowing the knife is sharp doesn't make one bleed less.

saganus 10y ago

I see the point. Still scares the hell out of me. Privacy is a very strange thing. Even though I know that what I comment in online forums like HN is public for all intents and purposes it sends chills down my spine to think that we as a community could be shaped as you say. And if they are able to do so, how do they do it? I mean, besides the obvious tools like sockpuppet accounts and such, how do you build a strategy to steer an online community? what kind of psychological tools do you need to employ? Obviously psyops and humint people have decades of research on public manipulation, but still... how do you measure success? how do you keep it out of the participants' attention in a community that is full of educated (on these issues) people, or at least more educated than the average Joe I would hope?

Jugurtha 10y ago
Well, a "community" can be shaped when its individuals delegate thinking for themselves. This is the case with places where traditions hinder critical thinking. Everyone in unison: "GO TO statements are bad; Dijkstra said so". It also doesn't need to be kept out of the participant's attention to work or there wouldn't have been Hanssens and Polyakovs.. My point is that if the very people who do this for a living and are trained to counter an effort to turn them can be recruited, then anyone can be. Smart people seem to be like a machine with more open ports than a microwave and knowing the knife is sharp doesn't make one bleed less.