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What a bunch of snake oil. If you invested or are thinking of investing ask yourself a few simple questions. Who are the Shareholders/Directors/Officers of thi

What a bunch of snake oil. If you invested or are thinking of investing ask yourself a few simple questions. Who are the Shareholders/Directors/Officers of this corporation? Do you know what state it is incorporated in or going to be incorporated in? Just a few buzz words. Decentralized? No shit, any corporation with more than one shareholder is decentralized. Smart contracts? Defined as a self enforcing contract, guess what they don't exist. Autonomous? I'd like to see how this code is independently filing annual reports and preparing taxes sending out K-1's to its shareholders autonomously, because that alone would be an enterprise solution every single corporation in the US would pay top dollar for, because DAO just singlehandedly replaced corporate compliance lawyers and CPAs with code. Still not convinced and eager to get in on this? Then why not cut out the middle man? Create your own "DAO" as an Investment Club (Corp or LLC) the only issue is you will be capped at 100 members/voters/token holders and $25M in investment. But you will be able to tell people your created your own decentralized corporation every bit as autonomous as DAO, complete with 100 tokens people can buy to become a member/shareholder and use to vote on investment opportunities presented by the DAO or members/shareholders of the DAO.

tonyswish 10y ago
I think there are many legitimate concerns about this project, but what you are saying address none of them. In fact your first questions mean you don't understand it.
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  Actually, his first question indicates that the people calling this a "corporation" have no idea what that word means.
- will_brown 10y ago
  I think as a lawyer who practices a great deal of corporate transactions, I have a much better idea than most on the legal structure and compliance issue with corporations on a state by state basis. But instead of telling me my question shows I don't understand, please answer any of the following: -Are the token holders shareholders? -If shareholders do the token holders also get to vote for the board, or are their tokens/shares non-voting? -How many members are on this board? Since it is all autonomous how do you know the DAO has the minimum amount of board members are required by law? If say DAO is a DE corp (min 3 board members) and DE amends the law, how is DAO's code going to keep up?
  - tonyswish 10y ago
    Viewing this as a corporate attorney is the wrong approach as it's not a "corporation" and there is not really any legal framework as the idea is too new (CFTC commissioner just mentioned to "do no harm" to blockchain tech). 1. no, but they have a vote and can transfer a token which also represents their vote 2. there is no board 3. there is no board
    - j1vms 10y ago
      I think the key thing to emphasize as well is that "The DAO" is just a program which now has clearly defined rules for managing its assets in the form of cryptocurrency. When it interacts with the real world, it will do so by transferring or receiving digital assets and entering into real-world contracts with outside parties (Contractors). Whether those contracts with outside parties are enforceable, and how they will be enforced is within the realm of "to be determined" at this point. That does not at all mean the prospects for this type of setup/idea (DAO) are negative going forward.
      - dragonwriter 10y ago
        > When it interacts with the real world, it will do so by transferring or receiving digital assets and entering into real-world contracts with outside parties (Contractors). Is the DAO a legal entity with recognized agents with authority to enter into contracts on its behalf? If not, how can this possibly work?
        j1vms 10y ago
        Like I said "to be determined" is what I understand, however they appear initially to be employing a real-world company avatar: DAO.Link, based in Switzerland. [0] [0] http://www.coindesk.com/the-dao-just-raised-50-million-but-what-is-it/ http://www.coindesk.com/the-dao-just-raised-50-million-but-w... Edit: Also, do keep in mind that the Contractor would be able to see the contract is in effect by viewing it in the "blockchain". The question is only a matter of real-world enforcement in the specific case of the smart contract criteria not being satisfied at contract completion, due to incorrect/false data inputs to it by people in The DAO.
drcode 10y ago
> Defined as a self enforcing contract, guess what they don't exist This changed in July 2015, when the ethereum network went live. > I'd like to see how this code is independently filing annual reports and preparing taxes sending out K-1's to its shareholders autonomously Just wait- It's pretty likely the DAO shareholders will vote to have a contractor produce this information on behalf of the DAO. > ... for your own "DAO" as an Investment Club Go for it! An ethereum smart contract would be a great way to implement the operational details for this.
- will_brown 10y ago
  >This changed in July 2015, when the ethereum network went live. I know the term exists and I know people are operating as though it is a thing. But if you and I enter a contract whether it is a written agreement or a smart contract on Ethereum network, that has no more or less bearing on the legal enforcement in the event of a breach. In either case the non-breaching party must file suit for the breach and there must be a finding of fact, and the smart contract does not replace the fact finder in a court of law any more than a traditional contract. I know you don't speak on their behalf but DAO has raised $100+M and the answer to a simple tax question is just wait? That is my point, investments are inherently risky, but when the most basic questions regarding operation and governance can't be answered that is a red flag.
  - rboyd 10y ago
    >But if you and I enter a contract whether it is a written agreement or a smart contract on Ethereum network, that has no more or less bearing on the legal enforcement in the event of a breach. These contracts are enforced by math. Breaking them isn't a possibility. Whether or not The DAO works out or is a scam, I think it's a sign of things to come. We're in the beginning stages of seeing our traditional corporations and nation states morphing into something new and barely recognizable.
    - vectorpush 10y ago
      > These contracts are enforced by math. Breaking them isn't a possibility. Math cannot "enforce" a contract, it can't even understand the terms of the agreement, much less enforce it. > We're in the beginning stages of seeing our traditional corporations and nation states morphing into something new and barely recognizable. This kind of hyperbolic nonsense strains credulity.
gst 10y ago
You're referencing US law here, but it looks like most of the people involved in the DAO are neither US citizens nor US residents. Slock.it is a German company and dao.link will be incorporated in Switzerland.
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  The exact details differ, of course, by where it is incorporated (and also where it is doing business, as there are requirements for foreign corporations doing business in various jurisdictions), but generally similar kinds of application, registration, disclosure, management/agent desgination, etc., requirements exist in most jurisdictions.

tonyswish 10y ago

I think there are many legitimate concerns about this project, but what you are saying address none of them. In fact your first questions mean you don't understand it.

dragonwriter 10y ago
Actually, his first question indicates that the people calling this a "corporation" have no idea what that word means.
will_brown 10y ago
I think as a lawyer who practices a great deal of corporate transactions, I have a much better idea than most on the legal structure and compliance issue with corporations on a state by state basis. But instead of telling me my question shows I don't understand, please answer any of the following: -Are the token holders shareholders? -If shareholders do the token holders also get to vote for the board, or are their tokens/shares non-voting? -How many members are on this board? Since it is all autonomous how do you know the DAO has the minimum amount of board members are required by law? If say DAO is a DE corp (min 3 board members) and DE amends the law, how is DAO's code going to keep up?
- tonyswish 10y ago
  Viewing this as a corporate attorney is the wrong approach as it's not a "corporation" and there is not really any legal framework as the idea is too new (CFTC commissioner just mentioned to "do no harm" to blockchain tech). 1. no, but they have a vote and can transfer a token which also represents their vote 2. there is no board 3. there is no board
  - j1vms 10y ago
    I think the key thing to emphasize as well is that "The DAO" is just a program which now has clearly defined rules for managing its assets in the form of cryptocurrency. When it interacts with the real world, it will do so by transferring or receiving digital assets and entering into real-world contracts with outside parties (Contractors). Whether those contracts with outside parties are enforceable, and how they will be enforced is within the realm of "to be determined" at this point. That does not at all mean the prospects for this type of setup/idea (DAO) are negative going forward.
    - dragonwriter 10y ago
      > When it interacts with the real world, it will do so by transferring or receiving digital assets and entering into real-world contracts with outside parties (Contractors). Is the DAO a legal entity with recognized agents with authority to enter into contracts on its behalf? If not, how can this possibly work?
      - j1vms 10y ago
        Like I said "to be determined" is what I understand, however they appear initially to be employing a real-world company avatar: DAO.Link, based in Switzerland. [0] [0] http://www.coindesk.com/the-dao-just-raised-50-million-but-what-is-it/ http://www.coindesk.com/the-dao-just-raised-50-million-but-w... Edit: Also, do keep in mind that the Contractor would be able to see the contract is in effect by viewing it in the "blockchain". The question is only a matter of real-world enforcement in the specific case of the smart contract criteria not being satisfied at contract completion, due to incorrect/false data inputs to it by people in The DAO.

drcode 10y ago

> Defined as a self enforcing contract, guess what they don't exist This changed in July 2015, when the ethereum network went live. > I'd like to see how this code is independently filing annual reports and preparing taxes sending out K-1's to its shareholders autonomously Just wait- It's pretty likely the DAO shareholders will vote to have a contractor produce this information on behalf of the DAO. > ... for your own "DAO" as an Investment Club Go for it! An ethereum smart contract would be a great way to implement the operational details for this.

will_brown 10y ago
>This changed in July 2015, when the ethereum network went live. I know the term exists and I know people are operating as though it is a thing. But if you and I enter a contract whether it is a written agreement or a smart contract on Ethereum network, that has no more or less bearing on the legal enforcement in the event of a breach. In either case the non-breaching party must file suit for the breach and there must be a finding of fact, and the smart contract does not replace the fact finder in a court of law any more than a traditional contract. I know you don't speak on their behalf but DAO has raised $100+M and the answer to a simple tax question is just wait? That is my point, investments are inherently risky, but when the most basic questions regarding operation and governance can't be answered that is a red flag.
- rboyd 10y ago
  >But if you and I enter a contract whether it is a written agreement or a smart contract on Ethereum network, that has no more or less bearing on the legal enforcement in the event of a breach. These contracts are enforced by math. Breaking them isn't a possibility. Whether or not The DAO works out or is a scam, I think it's a sign of things to come. We're in the beginning stages of seeing our traditional corporations and nation states morphing into something new and barely recognizable.
  - vectorpush 10y ago
    > These contracts are enforced by math. Breaking them isn't a possibility. Math cannot "enforce" a contract, it can't even understand the terms of the agreement, much less enforce it. > We're in the beginning stages of seeing our traditional corporations and nation states morphing into something new and barely recognizable. This kind of hyperbolic nonsense strains credulity.

gst 10y ago

You're referencing US law here, but it looks like most of the people involved in the DAO are neither US citizens nor US residents. Slock.it is a German company and dao.link will be incorporated in Switzerland.

dragonwriter 10y ago
The exact details differ, of course, by where it is incorporated (and also where it is doing business, as there are requirements for foreign corporations doing business in various jurisdictions), but generally similar kinds of application, registration, disclosure, management/agent desgination, etc., requirements exist in most jurisdictions.