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I hear you, but I'm saying that's not the generally accepted use of the term which is: long hours, socially unacceptable working conditions, and low wages. It

I hear you, but I'm saying that's not the generally accepted use of the term which is: long hours, socially unacceptable working conditions, and low wages. It conjures up the image of something that warrants legal/political challenge. I could see this being argued for the traditional game development industry, which was plagued by long hours, harassment, and shit pay.

chris_wot 10y ago
That's a fair point. It was wrong to call Pivotal a sweatshop, I've never worked there or even visited so it would not be right to call the organisation that. Actually, I didn't mean to even imply Pivotal was, I was more focussed on a very narrow point so if I gave you the impression I agreed then I apologise because it isn't the case! I think you've already recognised the work hours aren't for everyone in your previous comment, so it sounds like Pivotal's hiring policy is pretty solid on this point. And in fact, it's not even an unreasonable expectation for everyone to come in on time, but probably a less popular one on HN judging from the downvotes you are getting. To be honest, it's a model I prefer. In my previous workplace I worked ridiculous hours due to understaffing and a few other issues and had to resign from burn-out. I'd much prefer to work for a Pivotal than I would a company like the last one I worked for :-) Heck, if Pivotal can get all their work done without a final crunch time, that's actually pretty amazing! I'd go so far as to say that I've never heard of a company who got this working before, so if that is the case then Pivotal are clearly doing something right. If only you were hiring in Australia, I'd seriously consider applying :P
- parasubvert 10y ago
  "I'd go so far as to say that I've never heard of a company who got this working before, so if that is the case then Pivotal are clearly doing something right." I hadn't really seen it before either, TBH. It is not perfect - sometimes we ship late. But that's part of the culture - Pivotal Tracker (www.pivotaltracker.com) tells you the date you're expected to ship given the work you have left, you don't tell it when to ship ;) Management won't break people over a deadline, they'll generally slip the date. Sustainability is more important. We do have a small/growing office in Sydney with a few openings: http://pivotal.io/locations/sydney http://pivotal.io/locations/sydney

chris_wot 10y ago

That's a fair point. It was wrong to call Pivotal a sweatshop, I've never worked there or even visited so it would not be right to call the organisation that. Actually, I didn't mean to even imply Pivotal was, I was more focussed on a very narrow point so if I gave you the impression I agreed then I apologise because it isn't the case! I think you've already recognised the work hours aren't for everyone in your previous comment, so it sounds like Pivotal's hiring policy is pretty solid on this point. And in fact, it's not even an unreasonable expectation for everyone to come in on time, but probably a less popular one on HN judging from the downvotes you are getting. To be honest, it's a model I prefer. In my previous workplace I worked ridiculous hours due to understaffing and a few other issues and had to resign from burn-out. I'd much prefer to work for a Pivotal than I would a company like the last one I worked for :-) Heck, if Pivotal can get all their work done without a final crunch time, that's actually pretty amazing! I'd go so far as to say that I've never heard of a company who got this working before, so if that is the case then Pivotal are clearly doing something right. If only you were hiring in Australia, I'd seriously consider applying :P

parasubvert 10y ago
"I'd go so far as to say that I've never heard of a company who got this working before, so if that is the case then Pivotal are clearly doing something right." I hadn't really seen it before either, TBH. It is not perfect - sometimes we ship late. But that's part of the culture - Pivotal Tracker (www.pivotaltracker.com) tells you the date you're expected to ship given the work you have left, you don't tell it when to ship ;) Management won't break people over a deadline, they'll generally slip the date. Sustainability is more important. We do have a small/growing office in Sydney with a few openings: http://pivotal.io/locations/sydney http://pivotal.io/locations/sydney