3 ms·

> Marijuana doesn't significantly impair reflexes (as generations of musicians have shown). As an aside, is music really reliant on reflexes like this? I would

by mankyd 10y ago

> Marijuana doesn't significantly impair reflexes (as generations of musicians have shown). As an aside, is music really reliant on reflexes like this? I would assume that the beat of a song gives one plenty of forewarning as to when a melody might change. And that assumes that the rhythm of a melody doesn't put you in am altered, hypnotic state in other ways.

Raphmedia 10y ago
Depends. If you are randomly jamming with friends and someone is too stoned, he's going to have one hell of a time trying to keep up if you suddenly go from a slow repetitive bluesy riff to something more rock & roll.
singlow 10y ago
Jazz musicians and other improvisational music require fast reactions to other players.
- mankyd 10y ago
  But I still wonder if that's not a different skill. Significant changes to the melody still come on the beat. The same can't be said to you driving down the road and the car ahead of you slams on the brakes. Talented musicians of all sort can learn how to improvise, but it's a learned skill, not simply "hey, different music means I do something different!" It's an acquired skill that means training your ear to create cohesive melodies.
  - zamalek 10y ago
    "Super High Me" (on Netflix) has a fair amount of experimentation around this - in one specific case the narrator/subject does a SAT and showed both augmented and diminished faculties in different disciplines. It's obviously far off from a scientific study but interesting none-the-less.
  - beat 10y ago
    As someone who both plays improvisational music and loves driving, they're very much the same feeling to me. It's a mixture of predictability and surprise. (And no, I don't drive intoxicated, I've had a total of two moving violations in 30+ years of driving, and I haven't been involved in an accident in 15 years - I'm a lot more daring with a guitar than with a car!) Musicians tend to either play high or play sober, consistently. I'm consistently sober. However, I've heard recordings of myself playing under the influence of marijuana, and cannot hear a difference. Alcohol, on the other hand, wrecks me musically. Beyond a three-beer limit, my playing becomes a litany of technical mistakes and bad ideas. I won't drink more than a beer while playing music, because it makes me suck.
atom-morgan 10y ago
> As an aside, is music really reliant on reflexes like this? Absolutely. The ability to recover from a mistake without anyone knowing.
- carlob 10y ago
  Sometimes you aren't even consciously aware until after the fact, it feels like a direct ear-fingers connection without consciousness mediating it.
emeraldd 10y ago
The reflexes come in with being able to make complex and delicate movements required to actually use an instrument. It's kind of like touch typing but more so, for music to sound smooth those movements have to just "happen" rather than being explicitly thought out.
- mankyd 10y ago
  Right, but that seems more like fine motor skills than reflexes, no?
beat 10y ago
The original association of marijuana and music is in jazz, and playing while stoned is still as much norm as exception among jazz musicians. Jazz is a form of structured improvisation. The raw music actually isn't that complex. What's complex is trying to make a new statement with that music on the fly, while simultaneously listening closely to other musicians in the band, who are making their own statements. Done right, it feels like two (or more) minds thinking as one. So yes, in addition to the physical reflexes needed to play difficult instruments gracefully, there's a lot of in-the-moment reflex in responding to the music and your fellow musicians.
- sampo 10y ago
  > while simultaneously listening closely to other musicians in the band, who are making their own statements Ostensibly, yes. In practice, usually only one person at a time is playing a solo over a predetermined and repeating chord progression.
  - beat 10y ago
    Oh, no. That's not jazz at all! The soloist isn't the only person improvising. The rest of the band is supporting the soloist by improvising. The chords themselves aren't simple, static devices. There is plenty of room for expression and communication. A soloist needs to be on their toes, ready for the drummer to just rework the groove for laughs. A bass player needs to catch on to some rhythmic motif the soloist is using, and be ready to drive them home when the soloist does. Even within totally composed music, a lot of attention is required to keep timing in sync. Performing live music in a group setting requires a great deal of attention to what's going on outside your own mind.

by mankyd 10y ago

Raphmedia 10y ago

Depends. If you are randomly jamming with friends and someone is too stoned, he's going to have one hell of a time trying to keep up if you suddenly go from a slow repetitive bluesy riff to something more rock & roll.

singlow 10y ago

Jazz musicians and other improvisational music require fast reactions to other players.

mankyd 10y ago
But I still wonder if that's not a different skill. Significant changes to the melody still come on the beat. The same can't be said to you driving down the road and the car ahead of you slams on the brakes. Talented musicians of all sort can learn how to improvise, but it's a learned skill, not simply "hey, different music means I do something different!" It's an acquired skill that means training your ear to create cohesive melodies.
- zamalek 10y ago
  "Super High Me" (on Netflix) has a fair amount of experimentation around this - in one specific case the narrator/subject does a SAT and showed both augmented and diminished faculties in different disciplines. It's obviously far off from a scientific study but interesting none-the-less.
- beat 10y ago
  As someone who both plays improvisational music and loves driving, they're very much the same feeling to me. It's a mixture of predictability and surprise. (And no, I don't drive intoxicated, I've had a total of two moving violations in 30+ years of driving, and I haven't been involved in an accident in 15 years - I'm a lot more daring with a guitar than with a car!) Musicians tend to either play high or play sober, consistently. I'm consistently sober. However, I've heard recordings of myself playing under the influence of marijuana, and cannot hear a difference. Alcohol, on the other hand, wrecks me musically. Beyond a three-beer limit, my playing becomes a litany of technical mistakes and bad ideas. I won't drink more than a beer while playing music, because it makes me suck.

atom-morgan 10y ago

> As an aside, is music really reliant on reflexes like this? Absolutely. The ability to recover from a mistake without anyone knowing.

carlob 10y ago
Sometimes you aren't even consciously aware until after the fact, it feels like a direct ear-fingers connection without consciousness mediating it.

emeraldd 10y ago

The reflexes come in with being able to make complex and delicate movements required to actually use an instrument. It's kind of like touch typing but more so, for music to sound smooth those movements have to just "happen" rather than being explicitly thought out.

mankyd 10y ago
Right, but that seems more like fine motor skills than reflexes, no?

beat 10y ago

The original association of marijuana and music is in jazz, and playing while stoned is still as much norm as exception among jazz musicians. Jazz is a form of structured improvisation. The raw music actually isn't that complex. What's complex is trying to make a new statement with that music on the fly, while simultaneously listening closely to other musicians in the band, who are making their own statements. Done right, it feels like two (or more) minds thinking as one. So yes, in addition to the physical reflexes needed to play difficult instruments gracefully, there's a lot of in-the-moment reflex in responding to the music and your fellow musicians.

sampo 10y ago
> while simultaneously listening closely to other musicians in the band, who are making their own statements Ostensibly, yes. In practice, usually only one person at a time is playing a solo over a predetermined and repeating chord progression.
- beat 10y ago
  Oh, no. That's not jazz at all! The soloist isn't the only person improvising. The rest of the band is supporting the soloist by improvising. The chords themselves aren't simple, static devices. There is plenty of room for expression and communication. A soloist needs to be on their toes, ready for the drummer to just rework the groove for laughs. A bass player needs to catch on to some rhythmic motif the soloist is using, and be ready to drive them home when the soloist does. Even within totally composed music, a lot of attention is required to keep timing in sync. Performing live music in a group setting requires a great deal of attention to what's going on outside your own mind.