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You've managed to mix in victim blaming, middle class guilt, and tolerance of crime into a wonderful stew. Here's a tip; if someone is engaging in crime, they'

by greedo 11y ago

You've managed to mix in victim blaming, middle class guilt, and tolerance of crime into a wonderful stew. Here's a tip; if someone is engaging in crime, they're a criminal. In this case it sounds like at least assault. This isn't a downtrodden Okie with his family in a hooptie trying to make ends meet until the Depression is over, it's a nutjob trying to attack someone with a lethal weapon.

onion2k 11y ago
if someone is engaging in crime, they're a criminal There are reasons why people turn to crime. If we deal with those reasons before the crime happens then, in general, everyone is better off. it's a nutjob trying to attack someone with a lethal weapon. Someone who is dangerously insane probably shouldn't be living on the streets. They represent a danger to the public. It's clearly preferable that those people are given aid in whatever ways necessary so no one gets stabbed. That's the problem with looking down on these people and referring to them as trash - you put yourself in the position of thinking they shouldn't be helped at all, so you end up having to live with the threat they pose.
- greedo 11y ago
  Never called them trash, never looked down on them. But this person is clearly a criminal; we don't know their mental status. Not all people with mental conditions turn to crime, nor do all homeless people. Crime is crime however. I would prefer to give aid to the poor women accosted and assaulted by this criminal, than give aid to the criminal. Life is full of choices.
  - jospoortvliet 11y ago
    That is a bit short-sighted, though. People can end up labled criminal without doing much of anything - plenty bad stories about that. Then there are folks with psychological issues - you can't blame somebody with a psychosis for what they do. Then there are people who have been abused and never got a decent chance in life to be decent people - not fair to lock them up without furtherfurther help either. Now therr might be people who had a good upbringing and education, no psychological issues and all opportunities in life but they still become criminals. These are generally corrupt politicians and bankers and asshole CEO's and such, NOT the kind of people who would be hurt by harsh anti-crime policy. Just how anti-encryption laws don't hinder cruminals, only good-meaning activists and journalists, neither do harsh laws against crime help against actual crime. See how Denmark and other nordic countries treat criminals - they have extremely low crime rates as result.
    - greedo 10y ago
      We don't know the root causes in this specific case, just the outcome. Barring a psych eval, we have to assume this is just a violent person, and restrict their freedom appropriately. In the end, it doesn't really matter the root cause, since we can't go back in time to ameliorate those factors; violent criminals need to have their freedom restricted. I'm not talking about "criminals" who misunderstand the law and get caught in a technicality. That's your strawman. I'm talking specifically about a violent person committing assault and battery.
- x0x0 11y ago
  Again, who cares about those people? And this is far from the only story. She was chased out of south park by masturbating street trash following her around the park -- also in the middle of the afternoon -- which is why we couldn't live in a cool apartment next to 21A. She was essentially robbed by aggressive panhandlers in Haight surrounding her with 3 pits and demanding money. Or the guy killed outside my apartment for differences in opinion over who got to fuck some woman. Or the street trash I had to punch because he grabbed my arm. I can go on, both with my stories and hers. And many more from my friends -- not heard it from a friend who heard it from a friend, but personal friends and SF residents who have related stuff that's happened to them. My tolerance is gone; it's time to cute benefits and harass them into either behaving like humans or ruining some other city.

by greedo 11y ago

onion2k 11y ago

if someone is engaging in crime, they're a criminal There are reasons why people turn to crime. If we deal with those reasons before the crime happens then, in general, everyone is better off. it's a nutjob trying to attack someone with a lethal weapon. Someone who is dangerously insane probably shouldn't be living on the streets. They represent a danger to the public. It's clearly preferable that those people are given aid in whatever ways necessary so no one gets stabbed. That's the problem with looking down on these people and referring to them as trash - you put yourself in the position of thinking they shouldn't be helped at all, so you end up having to live with the threat they pose.

greedo 11y ago
Never called them trash, never looked down on them. But this person is clearly a criminal; we don't know their mental status. Not all people with mental conditions turn to crime, nor do all homeless people. Crime is crime however. I would prefer to give aid to the poor women accosted and assaulted by this criminal, than give aid to the criminal. Life is full of choices.
- jospoortvliet 11y ago
  That is a bit short-sighted, though. People can end up labled criminal without doing much of anything - plenty bad stories about that. Then there are folks with psychological issues - you can't blame somebody with a psychosis for what they do. Then there are people who have been abused and never got a decent chance in life to be decent people - not fair to lock them up without furtherfurther help either. Now therr might be people who had a good upbringing and education, no psychological issues and all opportunities in life but they still become criminals. These are generally corrupt politicians and bankers and asshole CEO's and such, NOT the kind of people who would be hurt by harsh anti-crime policy. Just how anti-encryption laws don't hinder cruminals, only good-meaning activists and journalists, neither do harsh laws against crime help against actual crime. See how Denmark and other nordic countries treat criminals - they have extremely low crime rates as result.
  - greedo 10y ago
    We don't know the root causes in this specific case, just the outcome. Barring a psych eval, we have to assume this is just a violent person, and restrict their freedom appropriately. In the end, it doesn't really matter the root cause, since we can't go back in time to ameliorate those factors; violent criminals need to have their freedom restricted. I'm not talking about "criminals" who misunderstand the law and get caught in a technicality. That's your strawman. I'm talking specifically about a violent person committing assault and battery.
x0x0 11y ago
Again, who cares about those people? And this is far from the only story. She was chased out of south park by masturbating street trash following her around the park -- also in the middle of the afternoon -- which is why we couldn't live in a cool apartment next to 21A. She was essentially robbed by aggressive panhandlers in Haight surrounding her with 3 pits and demanding money. Or the guy killed outside my apartment for differences in opinion over who got to fuck some woman. Or the street trash I had to punch because he grabbed my arm. I can go on, both with my stories and hers. And many more from my friends -- not heard it from a friend who heard it from a friend, but personal friends and SF residents who have related stuff that's happened to them. My tolerance is gone; it's time to cute benefits and harass them into either behaving like humans or ruining some other city.